What do the Timelines Editors Hand Off to You Look Like?

[Peter Moretti]

Hi All,

We still live a world where timelines are sent off for color correction, usually via XLM, AAF or EDL.

But what is the editor actually handing off to you? So here are some questions:


1. Is there a single video track? Usually there is a multitude of video tracks in the editor's timeline. Alternate versions, VFX, titles, basic CC, different angles can all have their own video tracks. How much of this stuff is passed on to the colorist?

2. Is there audio? I would think there would be, but a conform guide I was reading said to remove all audio. And if you want audio, do you want a single mono track, two monos or stereo?

3. How long are they? I know twenty minute reels were the norm, but is this still the case for longform?

4. What kind of reference movie? I imagine you also want a reference movie, do you want H.264, Prores, DNx?

5. Any other thoughts, comments, observations?


Thanks so much!

 

[Dermot Shane]

what is the editor actually handing off to you? So here are some questions:
1. Is there a single video track? Usually there is a multitude of video tracks in the editor's timeline. Alternate versions, VFX, titles, basic CC, different angles can all have their own video tracks. How much of this stuff is passed on to the colorist?

if i'm only gradeing, then;
trk1 = conformed picture
trk2 = place holders for vfx to be cut in during color sessions
trk3 = refrence Qt

if i'm finishing then;
trk1 = conformed picture
trk2 = place holders for vfx to be cut in during color sessions
trk3 = titles
trk4 = refrence Qt

2. Is there audio? I would think there would be, but a conform guide I was reading said to remove all audio. And if you want audio, do you want a single mono track, two monos or stereo?

no audio in tehg AAF / XML, i will take that from the refrence

3. How long are they? I know twenty minute reels were the norm, but is this still the case for longform?

complete timeline, if i need to break it into reels i'll do that, but in 2017 with the z840 with 192 gig of ram therre's lttle reason to work in reels anymore, YMMV with a trashcan or single proc/32gig ram machine tho... then breaking it into reels may be needed

4. What kind of reference movie? I imagine you also want a reference movie, do you want H.264, Prores, DNx?

don't care much, prefer DNx36, stereo, temp color, titles, reframes etc etc in

5. Any other thoughts, comments, observations?

i seeing a DRP' + media pool delivered a fair bt lately, that's pretty awesome as the worst of the crap has prollly been sorted already...

 

[Marc Wielage]

We still live a world where timelines are sent off color correction, usually via XLM, AAF or EDL. But what is the editor actually handing off to you?

I agree with much of what Dermot says above.

I personally don't want the reference video placed in the timeline, and instead I drag it along as a separate linked file within Resolve. The best course is to ask the colorist (or post house) what they prefer, and give them what they want. I have spec sheets I provide to my clients, depending on their editing platform and camera file format, and we work it out from there.

I do still work in reels (as do a lot of people in LA) for the simple reason that when changes happen, it's easier to make them on a 20-minute timeline with 500 cuts rather than a 2-hour timeline with 2500 cuts. Saving and loading time is also a lot faster with shorter timelines. I have the ability to pull up still-frames from the entire project at any time, so if we need to go back and refer to something that happened an hour earlier in the project, I can grab that still in less than 5 seconds. The other good reason to work in reels is that we can color-correct the project out of order; that way, if Reel 2 is ready but we're still waiting on Reel 1, we can just dive in and get Reel 2 done, rather than just sit there.

Once the project is locked and approved, we can always make a "super session" of all the timelines and output a single flattened file.

The only time I work with a single timeline would be for episodic 1-hour dramas, which are typically about 42 minutes long and about 700-800 events. Those are manageable, but they're frequently provided as flattened QuickTime 444 log files.

 

[Brandon Obey]

For music videos it can be all over the place especially with nested sequences(where they are doing wArp stabilization, dynamic linking to AE, speed ramps, custom editing tricks, etc.) I usually just ask for them to bring everything to a max of 10 video layers. I edit also so I get the madness what goes on when they are in the creative process of cutting. It depends on the editor really, how their mind works. I've colored some dope edits but the timeline is madness, consequently the cleaner timelines are nice but the edit may not be as intriguing. Most programs can handle 10 layers without hiccups the issue is finding out what is enabled and what's not especially when certain editing tricks are used. I ask them to remove all disabled clips before I get it, in order to cut the conform time down. Depending upon the cut, you can spend a whole day getting the edit prepped for the XML even if they give u a reference.

 

[Dermot Shane]

I've colored some dope edits but the timeline is madness, consequently the cleaner timelines are nice but the edit may not be as intriguing. Most programs can handle 10 layers without hiccups

don't care what the editor does, i care what gets handed off for gradeing....

the issue is finding out what is enabled and what's not especially when certain editing tricks are used. I ask them to remove all disabled clips before I get it, in order to cut the conform time down. Depending upon the cut, you can spend a whole day getting the edit prepped for the XML even if they give u a reference.

As you note, it will be sorted, the only question is weither the prodiucer's want to pay an assit's rate on a offline system, or the want to pay a coloristis rate on a gradeing suite to do it.. if they are rolling in cash and want to pay me to do it, no sweat, i'll lhand it off to a online editor to conform and sort in Resolve and hand off to me a working DRP, then mark up his/her invoice and send a shinny new invoice off the the producer... 99% of the time they prefer to get an asisst in to sort the timeline and prep professionaly for a clean hand off, or get the editor to clean up his/her own mess... what ever works for them..... grradeing a 26 layer timeline is not an option for me tho, it takes too much time, costs the production far more than getting it sorted in the first place

 

[Marc Wielage]

grradeing a 26 layer timeline is not an option for me tho, it takes too much time, costs the production far more than getting it sorted in the first place

I tell them three tracks max, and that's assuming one is for titles, one is for VFX, and the rest is for the scenes themselves. If they have multiple split-screens or something, we just correct the plates, I send them those files, then they do the effect and send me back a single baked corrected file.

I agree that there's no need to burden the colorist with layers and layers and layers of files. I always say, "if I can flatten this down to a couple of layers, then you can flatten the session down to a couple of layers." Sometimes it needs an explanation, but most editors get it.