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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What camera and editing suite will you be upgrading/changing from by going red?

I use Vegas too, unfortunately it's limited to 8bit per channel color for the time being. No word from Madison if or when that will change. They are slated to come out with a 64bit version next year, maybe that's when it will happen.

If there is not sign of a change, I'll be moving to CS3 production suite or FCS2, haven't made up my mind yet.

Joe C.
 
if you want a 10 bit Vegas you should request it .. if Madison does not hear request from users - vegas will remain 8 bit ...
 
I had never heard of Vegas before I came to this forum, so I don't know anything about that. Is that used professionally very much? What does it compare to, as far as functionality? I have limited experience using Adobe Premiere, mainly I've used Final Cut Pro for several years now, had the Production Suite just before they came out with Studio 1, and now I bought Studio 2 right when it came out. If anyone is updating from Production Suite, I by accident bought an upgrade from that forgetting my version was academic, which is not what I meant to order but I got an academic discount on the computer and somehow that got thrown in. Whoops. So I had to buy the full version, we needed it that day for editing so we drove to the Apple store, my friend and I, and picked it up.

It's encouraging to see so many professionals (I am just beginning) using FCP and saying the same things about Avid that I felt from using it for a while in school, and from what I read about it, too. It just seems to me they are so content that "Avid is the industry king," they aren't really protecting the throne very well! It used to be, I understand, five years ago you basically had to use Avid for highly professional projects because an Avid Mojo setup was way faster than anything else offered. But today that's not true. An 8-core Mac with 16 gigs of RAM is going to be plenty powerful enough for any type of editing. My computer leaves a bit to be desired right now, unfortunately, I paid a lot for it but it was bad timing, I guess. It has dual 2.5 Ghz G5 processors with 8 gigs of RAM. It still runs pretty well, and I have two 20" monitors I can use on the next computer, but I really want something faster.

Clint -- I have the new MacBook Pro on order, 2.4 Ghz Intel Core Duo 2, 4 gigs of RAM, the 1920 x 1200 17" monitor, and the 7200 RPM 160 gig hard drive (to me that's better than a much slower 250 gig). I'm looking forward to getting it but there's a backorder right now on that 160 gig drive so it says 4-6 weeks. I'm hoping it'll be more like 3-4.

The school I was going to claimed that everyone uses Avid in the professional world, and there was no reason to get to know any other editing programs. After eight weeks, though, I began to learn that wasn't quite the case. Several of the Avid teachers actually were Final Cut users at home, but were paid to teach Avid in class. Then I ran into a few guys out in the industry, one worked for Sun Microsystems as I guess the head of their broadcast division or something along those lines, and the other was an independent producer / director, both swore by Final Cut. They actually were both Avid users before, one said he was an Avid user for many years and switched to Final Cut, now all he uses is Final Cut Studio and After Effects, and Photoshop of course, but no Avid. The other guy was more venmous about Avid, saying he was an Avid user but when I (diplomatically) tried to say, "Well I'm sure Avid is very powerful and just as good as Final Cut, I personally prefer Final Cut so that's the direction our production company is heading, but I'm sure Avid is great too" (because I wasn't sure yet whether he was like a die-hard Avid editor or something at that point in the conversation), he said, "Well I have to disagree with you there -- Avid is an absolutely terrible program and makes everything way too difficult. I only use Final Cut." Then I was like, "Well, that was my general feeling, haha, but I didn't want to say that."

In my limited time using Avid I can't imagine a worse designed program as far as giving a darn about user experience, the appearance of the program, any basic aesthetic responsibility, I mean I'm sure Avid was great when that's all there really was, but right now I can't tolerate that program. It's just not for me. When you've used Studio 2, or Adobe's software (my friend is an Adobe addict), it's very difficult to tolerate the interface of Avid. For me, I mean.

Would anyone here recommend owning both CS3 and FCS2? I just plopped down that $1,400 (with tax) for Studio 2, and I'm really not liking the idea of buying the Adobe suite too, but I'm not sure, maybe that would be good to have.
 
JonathanLB said:
Would anyone here recommend owning both CS3 and FCS2? I just plopped down that $1,400 (with tax) for Studio 2, and I'm really not liking the idea of buying the Adobe suite too, but I'm not sure, maybe that would be good to have.
Click to expand...

After Effects and Photoshop are necessities, but Premiere Pro, Encore, and Soundbooth are not since you already have FCS2.

I ended up ordering the Master Collection ($2,473.99) because I use everything in the Design Premium package ($1,759.99), but also needed AE ($987.99). Too bad my Premiere Pro, Encore, and Soundbooth will never get used since I got FCS2.
 
Avid FCS2

Avid FCS2

Anyone been using FCS2 yet on a feature length project?

I was wondering mainly what it is like if you are used to AVID. how does it compare from a user interface - operation standpoint.
 
The two interfaces are very different.

Avid is "mode based" in my mind. I'm either in edit point or clip mode etc etc... and there really aren't all that many tools that are used.

FCP and its twin Premiere are both "tool based". Anything you want to do on the timeline is it's own unique tool. Move an edit point? One tool. Slip an edit? Another tool. etc etc etc.

So from an intuitive standpoint FCP's interface is much easier to pick up initially because you just need to find the button or hotkey that does exactly what you want to do. Avid on the other hand is imo more gestural again going back to being "modes".

As JonathanLB expressed the impression this can give inexperienced users is that it sucks because they can't 'see' what they want to do.

Of the two if you know avid moving to FCP should be pretty simple since you know what you want to do you just have to find the button to do it. Moving from FCP to Avid without any training or instruction is like wandering around in a pitch black room and then bitching about the interior decoration and lack of functional furniture because you can't find it.
 
donatello said:
if you want a 10 bit Vegas you should request it .. if Madison does not hear request from users - vegas will remain 8 bit ...
Click to expand...


We have been for a couple of years. Since Sony took over, information coming from Madison has dried up. I heard a couple of things today that gave me hope, but I no longer worry about it anymore. It's just software. If it doesn't meet my needs, I'll move on. Sony/Madison Media has to be given a failing grade for the way they communicate back to their userbase.
 
My two bits on Avid; worst invest I ever made was to buy an Avid Xpress (used it with Betacam). I spent about $25,000 in 1999. Didn't even make $5,000 back.

Hated everything about the interface. What I hated most was the hype they built around it - if you are not using Avid then you are not editing.

Bought FCP for around $1,000 and got 2000% back in no time. So easy to use.

Same person (me), different tools, different results!!

PS. I would like to acknowledge Adobe Premiere as the one which gave me my first break in editing (Ver. 2, I started from).
 
we won´t replace, we will add red - to the exisiting HDCAMs (750) and 35mm oldschool Arri IIb. Lenses will probably remain the same, Zeiss 1.2 prime set, Angenieux Zooms.

Postproductionside we dropped Avid years ago and are using several different 1080/2K NLE & VFX, from Adobe Premiere, Sony Xpri Cobra and different discreet systems. Audio we went from Protools to Nuendo & Cubase.

For additional Finishing and D.I. we are looking at Iridias Speedgrade, Assimilate Scratch and DVS Clipster and Pronto.

DVS has a rocksolid realtime uncompressed 4k system, with direct DCI compliant output btw - really outstanding.

We were looking very precisely at FCP/Color, but due to only 2k and the nonprofessional, or at least highly problematic technical quality of color at the moment, we are pretty sceptical right now.
p.s. edit - however, if apple solves the issues, FCS is a really good offering - i just wanted to add this to avoid the impression that we think that FCS is a bad product!
 
EditMan1 said:
Anyone been using FCS2 yet on a feature length project?

I was wondering mainly what it is like if you are used to AVID. how does it compare from a user interface - operation standpoint.
Click to expand...

I just finished posting a feature project on FCS2. Format DVCProHD 720/24PN. Didn't use many of the new features. But I'm impressed at how much footage I could throw at the system. About 30hours of DVCProHD in one project. I could drop 8 hours on a timeline and go through it with no delays. I think thats a major improvement over earlier versions of FCP in terms of efficiency of the system overall.

I think AVID has a lot of advantages in terms of interface. Ease of use is important, but not as important as style of use, what kind of habits the interface engenders in you. I think FCP for all its advantages, encourages sloppy editing and mismanagement of projects. I wish Apple would change its interface to have modes where it feels more like Avid.

However for the time being FCP seems like the only choice. Avid seems like a relic.

I'm surprised some DoP's are saying they don't need post. It seems like in most cases we are going to need to have that functionality on or near set, if just in terms of managing footage. I'll dumping my tower and switching to a 17inch Macbook Pro with the hi res monitor and a drive enclosure tethered to the ExpressCard slot.

IBloom
 
thank you for the reply. I hope to start using Final Cut soon. It's good to know that it is working well with long formats smoothly.
 
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