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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What are your future lens buying plans

Daniel Browning's posting goes mostly over my head at the moment. The most significant sensor improvement for me would be low light performance being up there with the best from Sony, or Canon and Nikon DSLRs.

Was watching the extras on the DVD of Apocalypto, and the lit by firelight shots on the Genesis looked amazingly clean. OK, I'm sure post-processing probably helped, but on the two limited test shoots I've done so far, unuseable noise rears its head at anything above ISO 500 on the Red. Nowhere near enough to shoot available light by firelight. Still I'd be the first to admit I might be doing something wrong - Red newbie that I am!
 
DOF and low light...

DOF and low light...

ericyoung said:
The most significant improvement for me would be low light performance being up there with the best from Sony, or Canon and Nikon DSLRs.
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Its hard to balance using high speed lenses with the reality of actors that move around and don't hit their marks,

Look at the 1K scans from Super16 at these links (you need to sign in to see them), they were shot at f/2 and f/2.5 and there is not much that you can see in sharp focus, the plane of focus is like 1mm deep maybe?

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=402805#post402805

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28486&page=5

I was shooting some stuff in 35mm at f/1.2 using a 28mm and the depth of field was only a few inches or less at 6 feet, so sensor speed may be more usefull than lens speed?
 
Dan Hudgins said:
Its hard to balance using high speed lenses with the reality of actors that move around and don't hit their marks...I was shooting some stuff in 35mm at f/1.2 using a 28mm and the depth of field was only a few inches or less at 6 feet, so sensor speed may be more usefull than lens speed?
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Sorry Dan, my post was strictly off topic, although this thread has been straying all over the place, but I wasn't referring to faster lenses. I meant the noise floor/sensitivity of the Red [Edited my post above to be clearer].

Fire with its low colour temperature really stresses CMOS and hence Red's weakness in the blue channel. And it's low luminance challenges Red's relatively low native sensitivity compared to other digital sensors. I'd like improvements in both areas, although I realise greater sensitivity will have undesirable consequences when shooting in bright sunlight!
 
Daniel, indeed, a most excellent post. Btw, we need to hang out.
 
Here are a few frame grabs of the Standard Def Apocalypto DVD (I know it's hard to judge from a low res MPEG source, but the dark areas appear to have low noise filmlike grain rather than nasty blue fixed pattern noise like I see in the EVF of my Red when I raise ISO above 500. But I haven't shot enough real world tests with my camera yet to see what it can really do with correct settings etc. And I'm sure crushing blacks and other post can work wonders.
 
lens = fixed lens Scarlet - whatever it (lens) is = it is ..if JJ says it's good that's good enough for me ...

lets talk about Primes & other zooms after NAB & S.A.L.T ...
 
Michael Ragen said:
depends on exactly what you need to light with the fire. you can for closeups. at 1:10 this is just firelight. http://www.vimeo.com/2217794

don't get me wrong though. i'm really hoping the new cameras are 500 iso.
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Hi Michael

So what were your camera settings on those shots? What grading?

Thanks
Eric
 
i believe we were shooting 320 with superspeeds wide open or very close to. grading was done in after effects but i don't have the details on that.
 
Thanks Daniel and all for the information...really nice!!

Just steering the thread a bit...always like a picture.
View attachment 11918

This one lays out the next 12 months of Red lenses/cameras.
To me end of 2009 always felt like a log jam with too many options, which is kinda weird. That's Jim's problem.
I don't have to buy them all, do I Jim? Well I know his answer....
So he's given us a lot of choices at the end of the year....great.

Someone with a FF35 will have a better camera than someone with a S35.
And someone with the $$'s to buy everything in this economy will have a juicier xmas/new year than me. Good luck to them. They probably deserve it.
Availability of lenses may dampen the FF35 camp a little but I expect where's there's a weak point, someone will fill it and we'll have cine grade FF35 lenses all over FF35 cameras sooner than you can say what's the next big lenses offering for NAB 2010.

Bottom line is cash and if I plan to go FF35 cameras, I'll need to budget for FF35 lenses...as I'll be wasting half the sensor/camera if I don't use them and you're paying $28K for a couple of extra stops.

So my lens budget for the next year will include FF35 lenses.

Question 1: Will exisiting S35 lenses be regarded as B4 lenses in 5 years as resolutions 6K and upwards take hold?....it ain't going to go down or stay constant!

Dave.
 
ericyoung said:
Nowhere near enough to shoot available light by firelight. Still I'd be the first to admit I might be doing something wrong - Red newbie that I am!
Click to expand...

Make the fire bigger or get the talent closer. Did you bring some shiny boards? Bounce that fire light right back at 'em.

You have to color correct warm and crush the blacks 'cause that's what you shot. Also, noise reduction software does work.
 
Joel Kaye said:
That was probably lit with HMIs with CTO. Those guys had all the gear in the world out there - I'd be really, really surprised if all they had was a fire.
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Well, according to Mel and his producer on the commentary track, it really was just fire light, but he wasn't the DoP and maybe their memory was incorrect...
 
I had the pleasure of watching a digital projection of Apocalypto off an HDCAM-SR master on a screening hosted by Panavision New Zealand. Dean Semler and John Gault were both in attendance. If you even have the opportunity to hear Dean speak, take it.

This quote is from an info handout given on the evening:

The imagery in Apocalypto involves a certain amount of natural firelight. At the beginning of the picture, the villagers gather around fires to listen to an old story teller and dance . For these scenes, Semler bounced an HMI gelled with White Flame Green and 1/2 CTO into an Ultrabounce 35' above the action to create a "dirty nightlight" 1-2 stops under the overhead ambiance. "I then approached special effects supervisor Jesus Duran and said, 'Tonight, you're going to be my gaffer!" recalls the cinematographer. "He had his crew build six propane fires in the village to provide the main illumination. I was sitting in the tent, and my screen was black. Then the fires came up, and it was absolutely beautiful. My concern was that the fire would be too bright and the faces not quite bright enough, but the range was superb. I had no trouble in the highlights, and it didn't flare out. The blacks stayed black; the faces were really beautiful, and I was able to stay on the zooms and shoot any direction without having to avoid lights hidden in logs and rocks" By Benjamin B
 
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