Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What am I seeing here?

intermittent?

intermittent?

Rick Darge said:
If a problem with the hardware isn't there on a Friday, why would it crop up on a Saturday, using the same camera?
Click to expand...

It could be a bad solder joint on one of the data lines, I had some camera data from another camera that did not look right, it turned out it seems to be an intermittent solder bridge between two of the sensor leads or the like.

We took our Konvas out to shot and it worked fine, the next time it was loaded, and plugged into its battery back, press the run button and "Beep Beep Beep" the motor does not run at sync. The problem seemed to be an intermittent PCB, so after poking around, I remembered a story one of my photo teachers told me about, he was at a TV station in the live TV days, and just before showtime one of the two TV cameres filpped out, they called the tech out from the controller room and he looked at the image on the monitor then placed his fist above part of the camera and hit it very hard, presto the picture was back and it kept working for the remainder of the show, so I told my Brother the story and he said "what the h*ll" its not loss at this point, so he picked it up and slamed it down still beeping, again, harder, still beeping, third time much harder, slam, beeps stopped, camera running at sync!

One of the points I broght up before RED ONE shipped was the difference between a movie camera like a Mitchell NC or EYEMO that you can count on if just shooting with a single camera, and the need to have a backup camera if you are using a complex electronic device...
 
So rick,

Did you just shoot around that band all day knowing that it if the actor did not cross through the band you could easily fix it?

Is the camera still doing this?
Are you sending the camera back to RED?

Keep us posted.
 
We didn't catch the issues immediatley on the 2nd day. After 30 minutes of rolling, I noticed that when I closed the iris down, the problem became apparent. When the image is properly exposed, it's hardly noticeable. We were doing wide shots for the first 30m and all of the action was happening in the center of the frame. Couldn't see the vertical band because we had a smaller greenscreen that didn't fill the entire frame. On the screen edges of both sides, you could see the light stands, kinos and the wall/hallway behind them. It wasn't until I shot some close ups, with a uniform background, that I saw the issue. Right when I saw the issue I stopped shooting and black shaded. Didn't have time to cross check through RCX what we were getting because of the actors' schedule, so I crossed my fingers and continued shooting. After cross checking the files and rendering out tests, the problem is apparent in all of the footage, but least noticeable in those wide shots. I black shaded the camera a second time, after re-installing firmware. Problem was still there. Most noticeable is when you underexpose by 4-6 stops, and gain all the way up. A vertical band of compression pops up. I've never seen anything like it and have shot with 5 different MX cameras in the past month. Luckily for us this was a greenscreen shoot and most, if not all of the action is outside the 'problem zone' And anything that does go into that band, I can work over in post. It's just a little unnerving and I posted here to get others' feedback. I can't go back and fix anything, I can only warn other Redusers to test the hell out of their cameras because sometimes problems crop up. If your budget has it, always carry a backup. Had this been a high profile shoot, I would be flipping out and probably not posting here about it. I'd be driving down to Lake Forrest at 88 miles per hour
 
I say just put a piece of black gaff tape over that part of the monitor and pretend that you now have a special camera that shoots 4:3 instead of widescreen. Crop it off in post; you'll lose a little resolution, but it shouldn't be too bad. It's lucky that it only covers a small part of the screen. I also wouldn't be surprised if you could find just the right settings to fix it in Color.

Most important thing is to not freak out about it. No piece of gear works 100% of the time (except gaff tape). Hopefully you explained to the director and/or producers that not budgeting a backup camera carries a certain amount of expected risk. But part of what makes a good DP (or director or anything, really), is their ability to pull off a shoot in spite of the pile of problems that never doesn't arise on every production. I always think of that story from "Remains of the Day," about the butler who calmly tells his master "Sir, there's a tiger in the den. Shall I take care of it?" The master assents, and soon hears a gunshot. Then the butler comes back in and says "Dinner will be served at the usual time and there will be no discernable traces of the recent occurrence by that time." I really don't think that issue needed to cost you the shoot.

I also agree with David that you might not have presented it in the most tactful way. Probably best to contact Red support first, give them a chance to give you a fix or send out a loaner or whatever. That said, one of the best things about this board is that you can post an issue with "what's going on here? Anyone else have any experience with an issue like this?" and you very well might get the right fix faster from the crowd than Red themselves. So I can definitely see the benefit in both.

I hope I'm not coming off as antagonistic. As far as possible fixes go, I'm sure you tried restarting the camera; that would be my first effort. Did you try reinstalling whatever build you were on though? Or upgrading to the next one?could just be something weird like that. Whatever it is, be sure to let us all know what it turned out to be, and how it got fixed.
 
Ah, your last post addressed most of that. You clearly know what you're doing, and it sounds like you pulled off the shoot with aplomb. Hope your camera is easily fixed.

As far as film cameras being more reliable, I'm not entirely sold. At one point during shooting of The Last Waltz, 6 of the 7 cameras were down for repairs. I think the problems are just different, and people are just not used to the digital ones yet.
 
Tried all those thangs. Thanks for the advice though. It was one of those scenarios where we didn't know how bad of a problem it was until bringing it into the bay. Believe me, I'm the first to get on the phone with Red if we discover an issue on set. They've been nothing but helpful throughout the years. I've never had an issue with final imagery like this before so forgive me for not being tactful. It just limits my choices now and might require a reshoot at some point but knowing me, I'll just 'fix it in post'
 
Jamie Havill said:
There is a dark vertical 'band' running down the right hand side of the image that appears to have a dark, almost blueish hue to it. Look at the larger .mov that has been posted if you can't see it properly in the image.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing it out. I do see it, but to my eye it just looked like a seam in the green screen and the light was uneven so i thought it was the background and not the sensor.

Of course I didn't see the rest of the footage and had nothing to compare it to.

Thanks for the trained eye and speaking up.

Cheers,
Peter
 
I'm going to repost a larger JPEG now that my FTP is back up and running
 
LOG file

LOG file

I'm going to repost a larger JPEG now that my FTP is back up and running
Click to expand...

Have you filed a report about this problem with RED support yet Rick?

To retrieve a LOG file, insert CF card, then press SYSTEM / SETUP / MAINTENANCE then press WRITE LOG

Then e-mail the file ending in .LOG
 
electronics

electronics

joshua csehak said:
As far as film cameras being more reliable, I'm not entirely sold. At one point during shooting of The Last Waltz, 6 of the 7 cameras were down for repairs. I think the problems are just different, and people are just not used to the digital ones yet.
Click to expand...

I would think most of the time its the electronic and not the movement and other fool proof parts that are the problem. Newer cameras or rentals may be damaged, but the Mitchell NC with a Sync motor is as close to 100% as one can get, short of a 2709 with a hand crank. Most of the EYEMO and BOLEX and FILMO from 50 years ago still run and shoot without issues. We have used a 2709 that must be 75+ years old and probably has run half a million feet of film and still shoots without issues.

Given that there are what, 7000 RED ONE out now(?), one would expect 1 in 1000 to be down on any given day maybe? Becuase that is what happens with electronic things.
 
Colin, No. This isn't my camera This was for a different show in which I had to subrent for.
 
I had the exact same problem arise on a shoot recently. The green strip was however at the top of the screen and was horizontal, affecting dark areas more than light ones.

Present in R3Ds aswell as quicktimes on multiple machines, and more noticeable in some shots (the Non-greenscreen funnily enough) than others.

I missed it for shoot "A", then when it was pointed out during shoot "B", a Black shading was done and the problem went away. For shoot A black shading was done first thing in the morning, whereas in shoot B it was done after the cameras had been running for a time.

Thats what Ive taken away from it, do that Blackshade once the camera has reached temperature.
 
Andrew clemson said:
Thats what Ive taken away from it, do that Blackshade once the camera has reached temperature.
Click to expand...

This is one of those little tidbits that often comes up around here, but I don't think it's in the ops guide or anywhere else that people might need to read it. Any form of calibration such as the black shade, monitor color calibration, etc.. should always be done after the gear is warmed up and at a typical operating temperature. It is also something that should be redone if operating environments or parameters change by any significant amount.
 
Andrew and Jeff, wow, that's incredibly useful information. Thanks for posting.

Rick, any luck? Think temperature might've been a factor? Were you using a lot of tungsten lights in the studio?

Ps- if tact is the only thing that gets ignored when you run into problems that threaten your shoot, you're doing pretty damn good, IMO.
 
are most of, or all your shots green screen like that? You might be able to save yourself if you are, simple garbage matte to get ride of the banded areas could help out a lot. I understand that you'll have other stuff that's not usable too, but saving as much as possible is important right?
 
Tom.Wong said:
are most of, or all your shots green screen like that? You might be able to save yourself if you are, simple garbage matte to get ride of the banded areas could help out a lot. I understand that you'll have other stuff that's not usable too, but saving as much as possible is important right?
Click to expand...

Yea, already saving it now.. If it wasn't greenscreen I would be sad.. But it's OK, we're making it work for us. Thanks for the tip
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top