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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What am I missing?

Ryan Milliron

Ryan Milliron

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I recently graduated film school, but we did all DSLR unless you were able to afford renting your own.
I was able to save up and rent a Red Epic with Primes to shoot a commercial for a local MMA gym for my cinematography reel this past weekend.
Now this was a fast paced one day shoot and first time shooting with a RED.

RED advertises a lot about the big productions shot on RED recently OZ, The Great Gatsby etc. I feel like I fell short of capturing images that are maximizing what RED is capable of. I'm wondering what am I missing or doing wrong that is preventing me from achieving such pristine looks.

I have attached some screen shots from the shoot, an untouched, and a final color grade.

Gear used was:

RED EPIC, Prime lenses(older), Arri Tungsten Lights
 

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Well, do remember that it's not just the camera involved in the movies you're listing! There are great DPs's, crews and tonnes of gear.

If this is your first time with RED and you're used to DSLR - how did you expose on the Epic? What ISO, lenses at what T-stop etc? Also, tungsten starves the sensor a little, so you're going to get some more noise.

In the link of the GG image you've linked, there's lots of lighting going on - not only visible light in the background, but the lighting in the scene is shaped/modelled. Maybe consider more lighting - or using some practicals mixed in (for effect).

There are many great resources on this site - have a look around, as the Epic (and Scarlet) can achieve great results without Hollywood mega budgets :)
 
I read that REDs native ISO is 320 so I Lit for that setting. The T-stop varied between scenes. I was going for a low key darker look, I used a 1k, 6's and 3's in different set ups usually using around 4 lights at the same time.
 
There is an equation that would be applicable here. Fast, cheap and good. You can only have two of those items. Large productions have large resources in all things monetary, human and equipment. So much of it is about lighting. The wider the shot the bigger the lighting package and the more the resources to facilitate that lighting package. The last shot of Leo has been lit with a lot of attention to detail but it comes with a price.
 
I wasn't sure which was a more appropriate section as I shot on red and my question is cinematography related.
 
Right I understand big budgets etc, But I visited Mole Richardson with my class, and one of the things impressed upon me was he Said MORE lighting doesn't mean better lighting
 
Bob Gundu said:
If anyone needs inspiration on RED footage, take a look at House of Cards.

Click to expand...


Looks fantastic and relates to my original question what settings/setups should I be looking at to closer maximize what RED is capable of.
 
My honest advice to good looking footage is not to worry so much of what the RED camera has to offer. Good lighting, exposure, and framing is going to make your footage look a thousand times better regardless of the camera. All your clips are wide shots which are very tricky to light properly without proper tools. You're right that more light doesn't mean it's better, but that doesn't mean you underexpose your shot either. The gatsby shot is a closeup that can be lit with less lights but the placement of those lights is where the emotion lives. Check out this wonderful interview with cinematographer Janusz Kaminski.

http://www.alexandrosmaragos.com/2012/12/janusz-kaminski-interview.html




Ryan Milliron said:
Looks fantastic and relates to my original question what settings/setups should I be looking at to closer maximize what RED is capable of.
Click to expand...
 
Bob Gundu said:
My honest advice to good looking footage is not to worry so much of what the RED camera has to offer. Good lighting, exposure, and framing is going to make your footage look a thousand times better regardless of the camera. All your clips are wide shots which are very tricky to light properly without proper tools. You're right that more light doesn't mean it's better, but that doesn't mean you underexpose your shot either. The gatsby shot is a closeup that can be lit with less lights but the placement of those lights is where the emotion lives. Check out this wonderful interview with cinematographer Janusz Kaminski.

http://www.alexandrosmaragos.com/2012/12/janusz-kaminski-interview.html
Click to expand...

Well definitely appreciate the advice. I intentionally wanted the background to fall off to black, but you are saying the actors are also underexposed?
 
There is a great article in American Cinematographer about lighting for House Of Cards. Have a look at that. A lot of large soft light and very driven by practicals on set.

Now this is only my opinion so please take it with a pinch of salt. From a cursory glance at your shots it seems the background is lost to a blanket of darkness. I would have put in some stronger pools of light without detracting from the central subject. The subjects in those frames don't look sculpted enough or perhaps the light doesn't seem to have a natural source like a strong overhead, or strong backlight. These shots could have done with a stronger drama in the lighting I think.
 
JPSendall said:
There is a great article in American Cinematographer about lighting for House Of Cards. Have a look at that. A lot of large soft light and very driven by practicals on set.

Now this is only my opinion so please take it with a pinch of salt. From a cursory glance at your shots it seems the background is lost to a blanket of darkness. I would have put in some stronger pools of light without detracting from the central subject. The subjects in those frames don't look sculpted enough or perhaps the light doesn't seem to have a natural source like a strong overhead, or strong backlight. These shots could have done with a stronger drama in the lighting I think.
Click to expand...

I always welcome honestly thats why i was brave enough to post. So I intentionally wanted to have the backgrounds fade to black in some shots. My reasons where I wanted a darker emotional feel and I wanted to try to show the different parts of the gym as individual areas almost like separate rooms. But from the looks that might have been a poor choice but it was intentional never the less. Here is shot we did with a brighter back ground.
 

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My preference would have been to have a wide strong top light or at the very least a strong rim light behind the fighters. This is all about shadow play.

My good friend Stuart McIntyre directed these spots. I think you can get some great inspiration from them. All shot on the Epic.

https://vimeo.com/46429477

https://vimeo.com/46427889


Ryan Milliron said:
Well definitely appreciate the advice. I intentionally wanted the background to fall off to black, but you are saying the actors are also underexposed?
Click to expand...
 
Having dark background is fine. But to separate the actor off the background requires some rim light.

8416769246_3d219e40f1.jpg


Ryan Milliron said:
I always welcome honestly thats why i was brave enough to post. So I intentionally wanted to have the backgrounds fade to black in some shots. My reasons where I wanted a darker emotional feel and I wanted to try to show the different parts of the gym as individual areas almost like separate rooms. But from the looks that might have been a poor choice but it was intentional never the less. Here is shot we did with a brighter back ground.
Click to expand...
 
You dont need big budgets to get a great image quality from a RED camera.

But you do need years of craft under your belt to be albe to capture a great image.

Upload a R3D still frame for us to all look into your shot so we can see what your settings were.... Im sure we can give you some advice that will help.

Cheers
 
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