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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

WARNING: RED has -3 stops less latitude than the D-21&F35

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WARNING! There are sensors with 6 more stops than RED... which may or may not be available in the future for indeterminate prices in indeterminate quantities with unknown image quality! Stop everything that's happening now! We can't let the future sensors beat us!

I think this is one area where it's best to deliver as much as you can. The REDOne had less range than the F23 which was launched around the same time and both have been pretty successful. No need to panic yet.
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Sanjin,

You may remember David Stump's test of Frankie. 5000 people downloaded the tests, the Champagne was flowing until GB plotted the results against other cameras.

For some reason the Red One seems to perform badly in shoot-outs, lets hope Epic does better.

IMHO competition is a good thing Horses for Courses as GB would say.

Stephen
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Stephen,

all I wish and also the other REDusers for sure is that Mysterum - X

would have much much better performance than Mysterum sensor in R1.

In that case there is no reason for any rush with shipping Epic-X, etc,...

First get the best out of the product, second consider how that product would handle

with the competition and when you are sure that all is ready then start to ship it.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
WARNING! There are sensors with 6 more stops than RED... which may or may not be available in the future for indeterminate prices in indeterminate quantities with unknown image quality! Stop everything that's happening now! We can't let the future sensors beat us!

I think this is one area where it's best to deliver as much as you can. The REDOne had less range than the F23 which was launched around the same time and both have been pretty successful. No need to panic yet.
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You stick to your oilpaint, Gavin, at least that hasn't changed for centuries:laugh:
 
hans de vries said:
You stick to your oilpaint, Gavin, at least that hasn't changed for centuries:laugh:
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fietser

The Rijksmuseum Amsterdam

Or who else is the next time at IBC Amsterdam could visit the Rijksmuseum Amsterdam and learn about Rembrandt's "The Night Watch" :laugh:.

720px-The_Nightwatch_by_Rembrandt.jpg

The Night Watch (Dutch: De Nachtwacht) is the common name of one of the most famous works by Dutch painter Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn.
 
All I know is that beyond " "only" 9 stops dynamic range", Red has bring to a lot of people the camera to shoot 35mm with.

I don't care if a F35 or a D21 has 3 stops more, I'm happy with mine, and most of my crew images are better than lots of (french) movie I see on Tv shot with genesis, d-21 or f23.

I thank the Red team for giving me the opportunity to work the same as with my hvx200, and yet have a hollywood style movie, --AD Mode ON see our short Bunker to be sure of it, AD Mode Off--

I thank the Red team for the opportunity to be judged on cinematography, camera moves, framing, sound, editing, screenplay and directing, and not only with the camera used anymore.
I thank the Red team for opening me (and my fellows) the door to bigger cinema festivals, without Red, I'd be stuck with 1/3 HD and nobody would care.
That's the best I can tell for people always refering to charts. Though Geoff Boyle rocks
 
Somebody already suggested that RED Mysterium-X should be balanced

(fixed) more to 3200K tungsten light (orange) than to daylight 5600K (blue).

The next generation of high-end cine digital cameras all will go that way of low light

hyper sensitivity just try to compete with the latest super sensitive film stocks.
 
No silicon based sensor is anywhere near tungsten balanced. Sure you can hack it, but you will loose in that hack (analogue gain on blue, or reducing green and red sensitivity).

Graeme
 
Any FUD thrown at Geoff Boyle re: improperly handling RED footage won't stick - he knows what he's doing, and has himself complained that RED footage in shootouts is not properly handled.

I give Geoff the benefit of the doubt on this one.

At the end of the day, if you want incredible latitude, shoot film. Case closed.
 
Charles Angus said:
Any FUD thrown at Geoff Boyle re: improperly handling RED footage won't stick - he knows what he's doing, and has himself complained that RED footage in shootouts is not properly handled.

I give Geoff the benefit of the doubt on this one.

At the end of the day, if you want incredible latitude, shoot film. Case closed.
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Indeed
 
Eki Halkka said:
Well, R1 measures over 11 stops. Best home video cameras can do around 9 stops.
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A great deal depends your tollerance of noise.
FWIW Arri's 'nearest competitor' measured the F35 at 11.3 stops.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
No silicon based sensor is anywhere near tungsten balanced. Sure you can hack it, but you will loose in that hack (analogue gain on blue, or reducing green and red sensitivity).

Graeme
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Graeme,

can you do it for us that is somewhere in between the two, daylight and tungsten.

BTW, I have already 5.000 posts!!! :emote_happyhappy::hurray::party:
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
In that case there is no reason for any rush with shipping Epic-X, etc,...
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Here I have to say that I don't agree with Sanjin.

Even if Epic-X had the same sensor as Red One, Epic-X would already be an important improvement. Epic-X will have several features of usability that are significant. Such as (less than) 2s boot up time, considerable smaller energy consumption, adaptivity to different kind of needs --cranes, jibs, gyrostabilizers, under water housings, still image feature and so on.

And we know that there will also be a better sensor. How much, yes that's a good question, but we will know soon.
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
Here I have to say that I don't agree with Sanjin.

Even if Epic-X had the same sensor as Red One, Epic-X would already be an important improvement. Epic-X will have several features of usability that are significant. Such as (less than) 2s boot up time, considerable smaller energy consumption, adaptivity to different kind of needs --cranes, jibs, gyrostabilizers, under water housings, still image feature and so on.

And we know that there will also be a better sensor. How much, yes that's a good question, but we will know soon.
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Agree with Lauri here - there are so many things right about the configuration of Epic that I would want to upgrade even if the sensor was the same specs.
 
Stephen Williams said:
A great deal depends your tollerance of noise.
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Actually, when measuring a camera's dynamic range it doesn't.

Camera's dynamic range is determined simply from the difference between the darkest gray that can be differentiated from black to the lightest gray that can be differentiated from pure, burnt out white. The measurement doesn't take a stance in how noisy or clean the image is, just if those shades can be determined.

It's whole another issue what area within this range is perceptually considered to have an acceptable amount of noise, or, how much underexposure is considered to have an acceptable amount of noise. Or, what is perceived to be the usable dynamic range. That's a matter of opinion and application, not measurement.

That "usable range" depends on many factors, including the output resolution, filtering and color correction - i.e. when scaled fom 4K to D1 size, a lot of the noise will be filtered out by averaging pixels, allowing you to underexpose by roughly two stops while maintaining the same noise level when the image is examined pixel per pixel. Due to most noise being in dark areas, increasing the contrast in shadow areas while keeping brighter areas low contrast will make the image look noisier than having high contrast highlights and low contrast shadows. And so on.

Also, many cameras do in-camera noise reduction - if such footage is compared to a raw output from another camera, it's apples and oranges situation. Similar filtering can be done for raw footage, increasing the perceived signal-noise ratio and thus the usable dynamic range. The real-life performance of cameras should be compared at the same output resolution, and with similar processing (taking into account both in-camera processing and processing done in post).
 
You can hack any sensor to respond to white as white for any color temperature you want, within reason. If it makes sense to do so or not is another issue.

Graeme
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Graeme,

can you do it for us that is somewhere in between the two, daylight and tungsten.

BTW, I have already 5.000 posts!!! :emote_happyhappy::hurray::party:
Click to expand...

It's funny, some are always discussing, what could be better or not with RED One and are collecting posts, other are shooting the hell out of this great camera and every picture makes them happy, like me. RED ONE is NOT perfect, but as perfect as possible for what this camera wanted do be: the first affordable digital cinema camera for all of us.
 
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