Vinten Vision 100 ? Any users with experience with this head?

[Clayton Burkhart]

I am in the market for a used head that can handle a slightly higher payload than my current system. (Sachtler). I need to go up to about 18Kg.

Let's put aside O'Connor for the moment (a 1030DS would be great, but ouch for the wallet).

Traditionally, I would be looking for another Sachtler, something like a 20P or a Video 25, but I have heard a few good things about the Vinten Vision 100 and wondered if anyone had used this head?

Your experience is welcome.

 

[James K]

I use a Vinten Vision 100 and I've had no issues with it even before when I had a R1. A solid tripod that I plan on using for many more years.

 

[Robert Hart]

I like the Vintens. If you are buying used, one or two things to look out for if you are able inspect the head close and personal.


The tilt lock lever on the left towards front is vulnerable to impact damage from tripod falls and careless transport. It will bend - not so bad. It may transfer impact to the castwork which may develop a circular crack around the threaded pillar - bad. Friction lock becomes essentially useless because the pressure needed to achieve lock friction on an internal disk face will finally push this pillar out of the casting. Look for disturbance of the paint finish or creeping lube stain in any part of a 3/8" diameter circle around the lever. Older specimens appear more vulnerable.

On the top deck, where the wedge tongue of the head engages against the removable baseplate, the channel in which the tongue slides may begin to crack upwards at the channel edges. Tripod falls with the camera attached will provoke this. Look for localised wear, initiating cracks and bared paint over the top of the wedge tongue channel closest to the sliding baseplate. This indicates a high point of pulled metal where the surface should be dead flat. The mechanism wedges upwards and effectiveness of the lock decreases over time.

Where the pan/tilt levers attach is a thin extention of the castwork and is a weak point. Damage may occur from tripod falls, careless transport and maybe over-energetic desperation forceful moves by an operator when something happens too soon for frictions to be adjusted, most likely after previous damage. Look for the disturbed paint finish of an initiating crack at or inboard of the rosette pattern. If there is a developing crack, this may propagate with use. All may not be lost because heads have a left and right rosette mount.

If one or the other has not yet cracked through and no replacement part can be found, you may be able to brace the two rosette mounts together. Use a threaded rod across the two rosette mounts through the attachment holes with a tubular pillar around the rod in a very snug fit between the rosette centre inner faces. If the fit is not snug, tightening will complete the partial failure by bending the section to detachment.

It is something best left to a machinist to tackle. The fastening method for the pan/tilt arms has to be altered for this arrangement.

 

[Clayton Burkhart]

I like the Vintens. If you are buying used, one or two things to look out for if you are able inspect the head close and personal.


The tilt lock lever on the left towards front is vulnerable to impact damage from tripod falls and careless transport. It will bend - not so bad. It may transfer impact to the castwork which may develop a circular crack around the threaded pillar - bad. Friction lock becomes essentially useless because the pressure needed to achieve lock friction on an internal disk face will finally push this pillar out of the casting. Look for disturbance of the paint finish or creeping lube stain in any part of a 3/8" diameter circle around the lever. Older specimens appear more vulnerable.

On the top deck, where the wedge tongue of the head engages against the removable baseplate, the channel in which the tongue slides may begin to crack upwards at the channel edges. Tripod falls with the camera attached will provoke this. Look for localised wear, initiating cracks and bared paint over the top of the wedge tongue channel closest to the sliding baseplate. This indicates a high point of pulled metal where the surface should be dead flat. The mechanism wedges upwards and effectiveness of the lock decreases over time.

Where the pan/tilt levers attach is a thin extention of the castwork and is a weak point. Damage may occur from tripod falls, careless transport and maybe over-energetic desperation forceful moves by an operator when something happens too soon for frictions to be adjusted, most likely after previous damage. Look for the disturbed paint finish of an initiating crack at or inboard of the rosette pattern. If there is a developing crack, this may propagate with use. All may not be lost because heads have a left and right rosette mount.

If one or the other has not yet cracked through and no replacement part can be found, you may be able to brace the two rosette mounts together. Use a threaded rod across the two rosette mounts through the attachment holes with a tubular pillar around the rod in a very snug fit between the rosette centre inner faces. If the fit is not snug, tightening will complete the partial failure by bending the section to detachment.

It is something best left to a machinist to tackle. The fastening method for the pan/tilt arms has to be altered for this arrangement.

Robert, this is invaluable information. It is not often we have this level of detail as to what to look for and I am certain others will be grateful as well.
If I were to step back a minute though, and ask you a more general question...
Alistair Chapman feels that the O"Connor 1030DS is overated and overly expensive and that a lot of what it offers in terms of stepless balance can be achieved with the Vinten 100.
I have to admit that I come more from a Sachtler background and have an inherent mistrust of friction systems.
Have you used other systems like the Sachtler Video 20 or the O'Connor 1030S and if so how would you compare the Vision 100 to them?

 

[Robert Hart]

Clayton.


I can't help you with O'Connor or Sachtler. The Sachtler head I had my hands on seemed robust and controllable enough. It cannot have been too bad because it earned its keep for the owner-operator in Indonesia for many years.

It has a square wedgeplate from memory. It is secured by a snailcam latch controlled by a lever with safety button. It is more convenient than the Vinten in that the latch is pre-armed somewhat like the Sony VCT14 and Panasonic SHAN TM700. However the wedgeplate, after front toe location by the operator, is lowered down into the receiver by rearwards tilt which sets off the latch into its locked position.

This is a plus compared to the more fiddly awkward offer-up and slide forward system of the Sony VCT15 Shan TM700, Vinten and Miller. It should be less vulnerable to wear. I do not know how the modern Sachtlers are set up. The small Manfrotto I had a quick play with seemed "bendy" when panning with friction. The larger specimens may be better. The owners of those brands who contribute to this thread will be safer to listen to than me.

My history is with old black Millers before counter-balance systems were introduced. I have a Vinton 22 with 150mm bowl. It has a wonderfully controllable movement and doesn't go over like a melted candle when you turn your back on it. It was fairly beaten up when I got it and the issues I describe are present. I have used a Vinton Vision 10 which is of a slightly different construction style a little more resistant to breakage around the tilt lock lever.

The wedge latch issue can be fixed by a machinist milling out the broken channel and replacing the lifted broken section with a strong thin plate rebated into the top and secured with screws. It is a bit complex to make in that there has to be a guide spine accommodated in the new piece. There is not much metal there to play with. My solution is rather unfaithful to the brand, using a Panasonic SHAN TM700 baseplate directly fastened as my camera already has the Sony fittings on the bottom.

Interestingly, the counterbalance springs in the Vinton 22 are loaded in compression and look remarkably like my vague recollection of BMC Mini-Minor 850cc valve springs. I wonder if they were.


FOOTOTE. Something to be mindful of is that some camera bases are wide enough to interfere with the side operated threaded wedge latch levers of narrow Vintens and DS-style Millers when they have become worn and their tightening arc goes over the top. They fetch up against the base of a wide camera before they pull tight. Some have an adjustment but it can be a proper monkeypuzzle to work out.

The end of the pan/tilt handle on the Miller DS style may poke through too far, hit and snap off the latch lever if the handles have become mixed up. If you end up with a used DS style Miller, check that the end of the pan/tilt handle does not come through the clamp so far as to pick up on the latch lever.

If it does, then you need to insert some sort of a spacer between the rear shoulder of the pan/tilt handle where it enters the clamp and the rear face of the clamp itself. I found a small rubber eye out of a small automotive shock absorber worked just fine.


It would be best to try your camera on an identical rental tripod head before you buy to make sure it fits conveniently without need of spacer plates to be added.

Alistair Chapman has made helpful suggestions over the years and is worth listening to.

 

[Robert Hart]

Here is an example of a broken-out tilt lever. This was from an eBay auction.

 

[Justin McAleece]

I have used the Vinten Vision 10 for years and it is every bit as smooth as an O'Connor or Sachtler for the 8-20 pound range that I use it at. I don't know as much about the Vision 100 but I'm sure it's smooth as silk.

As for the way the plate attaches, it's a little tight and hard to slide in there when you have a heavy and/or awkward camera. What I have done is buy a Manfrotto receiver and Manfrotto plates. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554151-REG/Manfrotto_357_357_Pro_Quick_Release.html
Actually I bought about 5 of them. They are way less expensive than any of the high-end brands' offerings and work just as well. Hell, just buying one plate for the Vision 100 would probably be more. That's the other part, my plate never comes off my tripod so I never risk losing that. Not only does this allow you to leave one plate on the camera and be able to switch between multiple heads, Steadicam sleds, Handheld rigs and jibs but it also gives you more slide room to balance back and forth on any of those rigs. That's what works for me at least.

 

[ericyoung]

All the Vinten Vision professional range are excellent fluid heads. A well looked after used Vinten Vision 100 will be a great fluid pan & tilt head for its weight/payload range. Check that your heaviest camera rig fits well within that range and you should be fine.

 

[Robert Hart]

Perhaps I should point out that things cracked off or broken, lots of worn-off edges and corners are a fair indicator of a history in harsh operating environments. There is also such a thing as fair wear and tear.

The curved style of the Vinten 22 that I exampled, represents as efficient as engineering could get in making a head that was not too heavy, less likely to have the assistant collapsing all spreadeagled like an overloaded donkey, hiking it up and down mountains.

You just have to admire the craftmanship of the pattern-makers and modellers who set up that castwork and got things to fit and work around other parts without excess material adding to weight. I wonder how many of the original engineers are still with us.

 

[Daniel Murphy]

Fresh off a job last week, here's my rig complete with RED EPIC, PRO IO, LCD Touch, RED CLUTCH, OLED viewfinder, Dionic HD battery, PIX 240I with both Sony batteries, Schneider FF Prime 100mm and Chrosziel Matte box all sitting atop a Vinten Vision 100 w/carbon legs.

Very Sturdy and easy to counterbalance. I also own Sachtler Video 18p and 20p in addition to a Vinten Vision 10 (used mostly for a hi hat..) Vision 100 is my go to tripod with it's 44lb capacity and ease of use. I love Vinten's 'hands off' counterbalance where camera stays in place even if tilt drag set to zero at any tilt angle. End result is you can tilt camera with one finger and it stays in place wherever you tilt without tipping over or snapping back. My Sachtler tripod heads do not do this. Yes the 20p takes a heavier load but less flexibility.

This photo is a still from other EPIC panning by my camera between takes. CLUTCH used for quick switch to handheld and only have one RED Quick release LOL

Unless you are using very heavy glass you should be fine.

 

[Robert Hart]

Whilst this will be useless info for most folk, - on a closer look at the Vinten Vision 22 I have apart presently, it appears that provision was made for a tubular pillar or a shouldered shaft between the two tilt-pan handle mounts in compression as a strengthener. The relief for the locating shoulder for a hollow pillar or a shouldered shaft is there in the castwork.

It would seem this may have been eliminated from the final design. It would have denied the ability of the head to tilt to full vertical on those mounts and tripods which would allow it. A shouldered shaft would have required six separate machining operations to build.

Crush compaction by a narrow pillar of the light aluminium cast metal and consequent bending of the rosette extentions in the castings might have actually provoked cracking when the fasteners were tensioned. In use, the threaded shouldered shaft may have been likely to work loose, wear the reliefs and then when everything was tightened nrxt maintenance time, cause cracking.

This is all fatuous theory on my part, but published for those who like to forensically delve into why some things break and others don't.