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Vimeo changing output range of video (0-255 to 16-235)

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Rafael Defavari

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Hello everyone,

I am having a problem with the output range of my videos in vimeo. I am uploading to vimeo a timelapse video made out of raw pictures. I have Imported raw to After Effects and output uncompressed 10bit v210 avi file. Then I used avisynth to make it 8bit uncompressed and dithered avi (to avoid banding) and then used handbrake to export H264 with x264. It plays fine on Media Player Classic with output set to 0-255. If I play the video on Media Player Classic with output range of 16-235, the video lacks contrast. But when I play the video uploaded on vimeo, it looks exactly like it was being played as 16-235 output on Media Player Classic.

Is there anything I can do try to fix this problem?

I don't know if here is the right place to ask. I have read extensively this topic with lots of good information I have seen your discussion on this topic http://liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/vimeo-black-levels-are-not-true-black.2206/page-2 but I don't know if I understood everything correctly.

Thanks!
 
Rafael Defavari said:
It plays fine on Media Player Classic with output set to 0-255. If I play the video on Media Player Classic with output range of 16-235, the video lacks contrast.
Click to expand...

The 16-235 lacks contrast because your computer monitor is calibrated for 0, 255. On a consumer TV the 16, 235 would look correct and the 0, 255 would be over contrasty with crushed blacks.

Where is black in your file? Is it at 0 or 16? What are you using to view the content on Vimeo? Browser and OS?

Windows Media Player, for example, will expand 16, 235 into 0, 255 so that video looks correct on the desktop. Media Center will not do this because it is expecting you to connect to a TV where 16, 235 is correct.
 
Hello everyone, thanks for the replies. I am using Windows 7 64bits, and Firefox and Chrome as browsers.

The black level is on 0, video changes it to dark gray when viewing it on browser.

The strange thing is that in one computer, the video lacks contrast, with the Firefox hardware acceleration on or off. On my home pc, the levels are ok (same OS and browser, even with hardware acceleration on). On both computers the video card is configured to do absolute nothing with the videos displayed. I don't know how what can be different on both, but the most important thing is that I don't know what other user will see at their homes. Changing any configuration would not be a smart fix, because I want the video to be displayed with correct levels by default for everyone, independently what has been done or not by the average person at home.

I can convert my video to 16-235 before uploading if that solves the problem, would that be the answer then?
 
No the problem it sounds is that your browser is changing it from 0-255 to 15-235. If you changed it to 16-235 you would just end up at like 32 - 220 which would be even worse on the browsers that handle it improperly now and just as bad as the bad browsers on the good ones. :D
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
No the problem it sounds is that your browser is changing it from 0-255 to 15-235. If you changed it to 16-235 you would just end up at like 32 - 220 which would be even worse on the browsers that handle it improperly now and just as bad as the bad browsers on the good ones. :D
Click to expand...

That does really make sense to me. I guess I just have to live with it and shed a tear for those users who can't see the video at the correct levels. Thanks!
 
There's currently a bug in Current release version of Chrome and the Current NVIDIA drivers that just output video straight without applying a RGB LUT to the signal.

There is a workaround by going into the Nvidia control panel and going to adjust video color settings clicking NVIDIA SETTINGS, and going to the advanced tab. You can force all video to be mapped to 0-255 this way as a workaround.
 
Alexander Mejia said:
There is a workaround by going into the Nvidia control panel and going to adjust video color settings clicking NVIDIA SETTINGS, and going to the advanced tab. You can force all video to be mapped to 0-255 this way as a workaround.
Click to expand...


Wow this fixes quicktime too! Thank you for being the first person ever to actually provide a good workaround to quicktime H265 gamma issues.
 
Alexander Mejia said:
There's currently a bug in Current release version of Chrome and the Current NVIDIA drivers that just output video straight without applying a RGB LUT to the signal.

There is a workaround by going into the Nvidia control panel and going to adjust video color settings clicking NVIDIA SETTINGS, and going to the advanced tab. You can force all video to be mapped to 0-255 this way as a workaround.
Click to expand...


I am literally watching my black levels come back after this.....

I hate dealing with browsers....
 
Mike Harrington said:
I am literally watching my black levels come back after this..... I hate dealing with browsers....
Click to expand...
That is a nightmare, especially when you have clients screaming that a piece of video looks one way on one monitor, and another monitor. When you suggest, "well, how are the monitors calibrated," they get flustered and annoyed.

It's sad to reflect that the world is not calibrated, so nobody is seeing the same pictures we see, a lot of the time. It's amazing that stuff looks as good as it does on crap computer monitors.
 
displaying the 16-235 signal straight shouldn't be a huge deal as you're still seeing the entire picture, its just that black is raised and white is slightly lowered, so it will look a bit less contrasty.

Just dont try to correct for it in your video, if someone is viewing it wrong, that bug will eventually get fixed.
 
Elliott Balsley said:
Always use 16-235 unless you have a specific reason to use full range levels. This rule includes Vimeo.
Click to expand...
I have made my video 0-255 since the beginning because it's a time-lapse project shot on DSLR cameras with still pictures, made to be viewed on the web. So there's no point for me reducing the range.

Alexander, thanks a lot for the workaround, it did perfectly. Guys, can you check if you can see absolute black at the end/credits of my video? You can see it by clicking here: http://vimeo.com/95499273
I guess it looks fine here, but knowing what you are seeing will let me rest in peace (or not).

I have started a thread asking for opinions on this short film on the showcase section of the forum, if you wish to comment anything about it, please feel free to do it here or there.

Thanks for the help!
 
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Elliott Balsley said:
Always use 16-235 unless you have a specific reason to use full range levels. This rule includes Vimeo.
Click to expand...

A lot of NLE softwares will do a correction for you automatically when you export to the correct format, Just make sure you're dealing with IRE so 0 will be black and 100 will be white. Depending on what format you export to it will do a translation for what that format expects.
 
I believe Vimeo's player and most other players will expect H.264 video to be in the legal range, so they will map 16 to true black on a computer display. Because of this, I though that using full range would cause blacks and whites to be crushed/clipped. However, Rafael's video looks fine to me in Vimeo. Maybe vimeo's encoder can detect your video's levels and scale accordingly?
 
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Elliott Balsley said:
I believe Vimeo's player and most other players will expect H.264 video to be in the legal range, so they will map 16 to true black on a computer display. Because of this, I though that using full range would cause blacks and whites to be crushed/clipped. However, Rafael's video looks fine to me in Vimeo. I downloaded it, and I see the black level is at 16, so maybe Vimeo scaled it for you.
Click to expand...

No, not true at all. Vimeo expects full range, but does automatically scale video/limited.
 
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