Villains/Antagonists

[Erich Ocean]

I'm looking for the best examples of villains in cinema/books/art, as well as any resources you are aware of for crafting villains for original stories.

I'm also including antagonists, which need not be actual characters.

For instance, in the movie Toy Story, the first antagonist we become aware of is that Andy is moving and there's the possibility that a toy can be left behind in the process.

My reason for this post is that I've begun noticing that far less effort seems to be put into teaching people how to create the villain/antagonist in stories, even though the usual advice is to make them as hard/difficult/etc. for the protagonist/hero as possible. Well, how?

The world has some truly great literature on Heros, but I haven't (yet) found a similar level of sophistication on villains/antagonists beyond the usual platitudes.

I'm hoping to compile what I find, organize, and if the need exists, share it with the world.

Thanks!

 

[ericyoung]

IMHO The trick about great villains is not to write them as "villains" - In their own world, the villain has their own legitimate motivations, and the "hero" is the villain who is getting in the way of their perfectly valid objectives (like world domination!). Also, the worthy antagonist is often slightly bigger, stronger, faster, and/or smarter than the hero, so that the hero really has to dig deep to overcome them.

Although it's not that useful to generalise, the Bond villains of old, although classic in a fun way, aren't really satisfying to me as villains precisely because their motivations are a bit dodgy/sketchy. Of course Heath Ledger's Joker is a great villain, and yet quite opaque in his motivation, so I've already disproved my generalisation!

I don't believe Andy moving is an antagonist as such - it's a situational motivation/barrier or a Robert McKee inciting incident, but it's not actively opposing the heroes.

 

[Brian Merlen]

hmm

hmm

One of the best bad guys I think I have seen recently was Gus in Breaking Bad. He is a very deep character with legitimate motivations on why he is evil. Even Jesse and Walter in that show have good character flaws. Very interesting plot

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

One of the greatest villains in cinema was Tim Roth's character in Rob Roy...in fact, that character was the inspiration for my principle antagonist in an upcoming feature film.

 

[alexwhitmer]

One of the greatest villains in cinema was Tim Roth's character in Rob Roy...in fact, that character was the inspiration for my principle antagonist in an upcoming feature film.

Yes! An excellent example. Love that film.

Villians do have their own motivations and reality, but some folks are just bad no matter, and never really have motivation beyond opportunity. Not all villains are complicated figures. I do agree there is not much out there in comparison to the good guys, which is tragic, since it is the villain and/or antag that set the pace and make the protag react.

I'll forward what I have when I get the notes cleaned up. Been developing a book, and have that very topic in my sights.

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[Nick Watkins]

Percy Wetmore, the cowardly and self-entitled prison guard from the Green Mile, is a well-executed villain IMHO. His character is particularly effective because he wants respect but thinks he can get it through dishonorable means (intimidating inmates, using violence against smaller/weaker characters, blackmail, wanton bragging, etc.). As an audience member, there is a sort of visceral hatred for this sort of sniveling, coniving character who eventually sheds all pretense of goodness and simply aims to take respect through strong-arming and deception. There is that moment of sheer joy and righteousness when you see John Coffey exact his revenge even though it is a horrible scene if taken out of context.

Commodus from Gladiator achieves a similar effect in that he desires the respect of his family and kingdom but is perpetually in the shadow of his father and Maximus. He tries to capture the love and admiration of his people by recreating barbaric games whereas Maximus and the Emporer earned the love of the people by fighting for the Roman Empire. Both Maximus and the Emporer spilled blood because it was their duty (although we could debate the honor of Roman expanisionism) whereas Commodus recreated the same bloodshed as a petty spectacle. Commodus also has the typical villain characteristics of being vile (kills his father), underhanded (stabbing Maximus in the back pre-fight), and just plain creepy (hitting on his sister).

Lastly, I always look at professional wrestling for the most simple yet intriguing examples of good versus evil. There are the hackneyed, over-the-top heels who simply insult the local crowd, cheat to win, and disparage the hero in order to draw heat. Then there are those obnoxious personalities that you want to see get their comeuppance. The Miz, who transitioned from reality washout to obnoxious, grating WWE champion, is a great example of someone who you want to see get knocked down a peg. Roddy Piper, the Rock, Stone Cold, and Chris Jericho are some more elite heel talkers that could whip the crowd into a frenzy and really made the babyface look like a million dollars even in defeat.

What I always seek in a villain is someone who feels justified in their actions. A character who is evil for evil's sake (Randall Flagg from the Stand comes to mind) is fun but understanding the psychology of a truly dastardly character (John Doe from Se7en) makes the protagonist's arc all the more interesting.

 

[Marc Wielage]

The Usual Suspects is a pretty good look at criminals -- particularly different levels of bad guys, from street thugs to burglers to master criminals who can manipulate a lot of people.

The criminals in Pulp Fiction are also fairly compelling.

And I'd point to The Sopranos on HBO as a good example of the show's creators manipulating us into wanting Tony Soprano to succeed, while rooting against his enemies (including the FBI). And I'd be remiss if I forgot to mention The Godfather, which also has very memorable villains.

I agree that having a lot of conflict is a huge element in any good script or work of fiction. And a great villain (or at least, a counterbalance to the hero) is a big part of that.

 

[Jaakko Rinne]

IMHO The trick about great villains is not to write them as "villains" - In their own world, the villain has their own legitimate motivations, and the "hero" is the villain who is getting in the way of their perfectly valid objectives (like world domination!).

This is really the main thing about good villain characters. The "villain" needs to think they are doing the right thing, even if their view of what's right and wrong is completely sick and twisted. Proper motivation is what makes them interesting and realistic.

 

[paulherrin]

Check out "The Disney Villain" by Frank & Ollie... it's incredible and exactly what you're looking for, methinks.

 

[alexwhitmer]

'Speed' is another good one (the first. Speed 2 is trash).

Villains can be driven by different motivations. What they consider to be justifiable revenge is a common theme. There is also the father knows best affect, where the villian is certain they know some grand truth, and that humans in general are to comfortable in their daily sheeple lives to see or even want change. So, the villain will force that change on them - like in creating a utopian society. In the film 'The Quick and the Dead', it was the protag (stone)that was driven by justifiable revenge, while the villain was driven by father knows best and greed. That and to protect is ill-gotten world. I think this is one of the rare instances where the villian must react to the protag, as opposed to the other way around. And it worked well.

One important difference between the protag and the villian is that the protag is usually (not always) what most would consider your normal, everyday Joe or Joette, while creating the villian usually (not always) needs some research into psychatric clinical cases to draw motivations. Megalomania, for instance.

I do think some (many?) villains are too simple and off the shelf, and too many missed opportunnities to make them the easy-going person next door at first glance. Pacific Heights pulls this off beautifully.



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[Tim Whitcomb]

Excellent thread Erich!

Spielberg was asked how he made so many successful movies in a row and he gave credit to Hitchcock - when pressed further he said "it's really one of the best kept secrets in Hollywood" - hitchcock was surrounded by studio writers but when he selected scripts he always had one question "Tell me about the Villain"

Think of all your favorite movies (and blockbusters) and I assure you (with a few exceptions) I'll bet that film has an incredible villain

To that end my favorite villains are always ones I tend to empathize with on some level - versus the purely evil cookie cutter villains who's evil is unmotivated beyond that thes script requires a bad guy - tell us "how" he/she "became" evil is always a good place to start

Charlize Therons Witch comes to mind as this summers most amazing Villain - I also Think it's no mistake that my tepid reactin to Prometheus was that there was "no clear villain"

Good luck inventing your super villain!!

 

[Erich Ocean]

Wow, lots of greats stuff here. Thanks guys, and keep it coming!

Definitely going to re-watch Rob Roy, I haven't seen that in years.

 

[Michael Dalton]

I think great villains are the ones that drive the emotions of protagonists and enhance their characters. David Fincher's Seven was great film for this. Pitt's character is literally driven mad by it. Shutter Island in a way is similar but the antagonist is in Dicaprio's mind. When the stories are structured this way, it is very fulfilling and emotional for the audience.

 

[Mark Britton]

One of the things that keeps coming back to me when thinking about 'villains' is that the person or personality that I buy into most as a villain is a person that is not all 'bad' or 'evil'...it's only one aspect of their personality. The sort of person you maybe ran into during your life experiences that you had a bad feeling about, but didn't really KNOW was a cheating scumbag, or violent abuser. They were personable, friendly, and perhaps even respected. Someone likes them. Someone loves them. There were questionable moments, but nothing that broke the surface, leaving you wondering if it was just you thinking they were a miserable excuse for a human being, or if there really was something there. Then something happens that pulls the mask aside and you are suddenly and unavoidably confronted with what they've done (or do), and it becomes a reflection of who you are on if you accept/overlook it and continue on...or if you part ways with the person, call the cops, or what have you.

So some of what it takes to have a villain is to have a not-villain. You need to have someone that sees, judges and (perhaps) acts.

I don't think that it's so hard to imagine a compelling 'villain'...I feel like it's difficult to have one that doesn't devolve into a cliche in a movie because of the format. Limited time to develop the villain's story arc, and seriously...it's a movie right? There's gotta be a villain, and unless you like to confuse your audience, there's only so many characters you can put in front of them, so one of them has gotta be IT, right?