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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Viewfinder design

HI Finner: Why does every solution on this board have a computer related style. ie: head set, full immersion, wiimote motion sensor, monitor mounted to your hat, surgical implant...(that was funny) etc etc. Having shot both electronic and optical VF no question which is better..... This feels like most folk here would drive their car with a mouse if they could....

After the initial adopter stage where techno-philes are much more interested I suspect the next wave of buyers will be more conventional in their approach to the work. I think it will go this way because as the RED moves into the mainstream more folks with longer developed methods will be interested. Right now pre-NAB 2007 most of those folks are still clinging to their Panasonics and Sony's hoping to work them out to the end of the payments.
RE post 24 Jim Arthur: really understands this look at his description.

VF Head Mounted: I am an older Steadicam op. mostly my son does the big camera jobs now and I just take it easy on little moves for spots etc. When game headsets first came out. The large mfgs. who got into it, drove out a local company owned by a friend of mine, which made a very nice headset. (it was too expensive to compete) I tried out their prototype as a Steadicam VF. In the Don-juan position it had some slight advantage as a second monitor. Especially because this one could be made quite transparent. So you could see oncoming furniture etc. It's hard to get high enough rez. in these (maybe that has improved) but the basic problem is trying to interpret an image facing in one direction to hand and arm movement which are facing in another. Kind of like driving backward looking in the mirror (not over your shoulder) To test this simply back your car as fast as it will go down neighborhood streets, while driving looking in the mirror. When the dust settles we will more in agreement.
 
tj williams said:
After the initial adopter stage where techno-philes are much more interested I suspect the next wave of buyers will be more conventional in their approach to the work. I think it will go this way because as the RED moves into the mainstream more folks with longer developed methods will be interested. Right now pre-NAB 2007 most of those folks are still clinging to their Panasonics and Sony's hoping to work them out to the end of the payments.
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I'm not so sure that we'll see as much shift back to traditional as you may think. This new generation of digital cameras is attracting a new breed of filmmaker into the mix. There are lots of newcomers to the industry with strong IT or data-centric backgrounds, who have little knowledge of traditional methods, film workflows, etc.. I fit into that category myself. I have zero experience shooting 35mm motion pictures. I do have some limited experience with 16mm. I know 35mm still photography fairly well and I have been shooting video with 35mm still glass duct-taped to my HVX200. I feel I have a creative eye and think I can do well with RED... It's overkill for what I actually do for clients, but I need to upgrade my HVX to something better and RED fits right in line with my budget and takes me more in the direction I would like to go with my own personal projects - creative filmmaking.

I'm not alone... There's a lot of us here who can't wait to get our hands on RED because it's not attached to traditional workflows. The data rates, storage requirements, backup/archival issues don't concern me so much. I already have multiple options under consideration and a good bit of infrastructure already in place to handle it. In fact, if RED shipped my camera tomorrow, I would be ready to handle the data aspects of it -- I would just need another box of VXA2 tapes and I'd add another RAID node to the SAN.

I don't see RED attracting too many tecno-phobes until the workflow is point and click easy all the way from log and capture to archival of the final product. Over on DVINFO.NET there was a great discussion about a week ago that demonstrates how some of the more traditional types are approaching RED. We're seeing backup/archival suggestions in the form of printing your RED footage to FILM to archive your original footage. Mind-blowing, really. They're talking about archiving by converting to an analog medium at a significant cost rather than storing the native, unaltered data, at what equates to pennies per GB once the workflow is established. But I think the more tech-savvy users/adopters of RED are going to outnumber the traditionalists with conventional workflows for some time, possibly even the next few years and we'll see more traditionalists adopting new workflows than technophiles going the other way.
 
zakaree said:
i heard red will be offering a surgical process cheap.. around 2300 bucks.. they will implant the "redeye" ...
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I know that I won't be too anxious to upgrade every year!
 
Applied Visual: Interesting perspective. I love the story about the 35mm archiving that is a hoot!!! No the scary part is that among my peers I'm considered to be technologically savvy??? If you've seen some of my other posts then.......

I'm sure the RED will help you move up to better work. There is nothing hard work and talent can't do. Getting into the work you hope to do may take years even in a top market. I hope you understand that from my perspective you are exactly the technophile I was talking about. Hey when my computer acts crazy I call my son who comes over and helps me fix it. I do know somthing about how the production process works however.

Consider:

1. Often the Dp has a major voice in deciding the format and camera. Usually he/she is hired before the camera is rented. Reel and reputation of the Dp are way more important than what camera to the producer and agency.

2. When people are spending a lot of money they want a person they know about and a workflow they believe is proven and trustworthy. 35m film is considered by most producers to be completely trustworthy. The Dp. whose work they know is often the person they want.

3. Although in lower budget jobs owning the camera is a plus, since you can throw it into the mix for less than a rental house would charge. In a higher budget situation the tendency is to go to the rental house first because it's proven and secondly because if something breaks they will run another one over to the set. You may be able to fit yourself into some more medium budget jobs with the camera because the camera has a lot of buzz and you come on the job with your camera in the same way a film camera asst. works. You are there to solve problems for a more non digital/technical Dp.

4. It is a mistake to underrate the knowledge of those people who want to archive on 35mm film. When you know the throw of every light, can recite the dof tables for any lens and stop, can go into any grip truck and name every part and discuss it's use, can make any move off any support, can light and pre light quickly and beautifully etc etc. then you will take their place.
 
tj williams said:
35m film is considered by most producers to be completely trustworthy.
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I'm not taking issue with the statement, but I always find it curious that the industry is so reliant on a format that is uncompromising on error - if it's mishandled in the slightest between exposure and development, your 'completely trustworthy' film is useless.

This is why I joined the RED revolution, and will be doing my best to make producers see the light. If the camera delivers, it can offer a near-identical workflow for DPs (minus any chemical effects they may be after) at a significant cost (and risk) savings to producers.
 
Stereotype: all motion media veterans over 45 years old are techno-challenged, narrow-minded, set in their ways, and practice a mantra of “I’ve always done it this way and I’m not changing”.

Reality: A significant number of motion media veterans over 45 years old are very techno-savvy, are open minded, evolve with the industry (in fact are instrumental in changing the industry), and practice a mantra of “What can I learn next to enhance my equipment and workflow”.

I’m almost 59 years, a 30 year veteran producer, director, cinematographer, videographer, photographer, and writer, and I represent the reality listed above, not the stereotype. I have a significant number of associates in my age/experience bracket who, like myself, stay completely on top of evolving technology, are open minded, evolve with the industry, and can’t wait to learn new methods of professional equipment and workflow. There is undoubtedly an “A” list” of top-level professionals who have reserved RED One cameras, and will now infuse them into their productions. The guys I know in my age/experience bracket who fit the stereotype listed above are all about to die, retire, or be out-competed on the job – and a lot of them are in denial of that fact. I grew up professionally in “old school” workflows and technology. I respect all that and learned from all that – but never got to the professional point where I felt I had all the answers, and refused to learn more and evolve with the industry.

Postscript: In the motion media industry of this century we either evolve or by our lack of evolution we program ourselves for professional extinction. The industry of the present and future is one of increased technology – and that trend won’t change or be reversed. RED One won’t immediately revolutionize the professional motion media industry workflow – because of the human nature impulse to resist change, resistance to having to re-learn workflows, ego, pride, legacy investments, and a number of other reasons. But RED One, and other camera systems like it, will inevitably succeed in progressively over time transforming and evolving the motion media industry.
 
I just have a simple question about the Red viewfinder, but haven't been able to get an answer yet:

In its stock configuration, will it extend out far enough to be usable with the left eye?
 
It doesnt have to extend, just move it.

BO2930_2930.jpg


it doesn't have to be in any particular place on the camera. Think outside the frame.
 
Last post from Gibby should definitely be used as a quote in Red's future dossiers, documents or promo material.
 
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