Viewfactor Studios refund info, and a review of the Impero/Inclino

[Alex Kornreich]

For those that are considering a refund, here's some info. I also have a review of the unit below. As a disclaimer, I placed my order in April of 2008:

They offer a check or wire transfer. For a wire transfer, there's a $50 fee. For a check, it's free, but it took me 4 weeks to get mine. I personally went to Viewfactor yesterday, and they had my check ready for me after calling them initially 4 weeks ago.

While at Viewfactor, I spoke to Curt, who I have to say is very nice and helpful. I think the reason he's not updating anymore is because there's just too many variables still up in the air, and he wants to stop disappointing people. However, he's picked up the phone every time I called, so I think that's the preferred method of communication at this point.

Curt also showed me the unit while I was there. While I only spent a limited time with it, here's my impression of it:

The build quality of the controller is fine, and feels fairly solid. However, having used a Bartech for several years, which is made of metal, there's no comparison. The Bartech feels bulletproof and will last 10 years, not sure about the viewfactor. Also, because the controller is almost a perfect circle, there's nowhere to rest your palm while trying to precisely pull focus. You kind of have to suspend your palm while using it, which is a bit uncomfortable.

Finally, there's no stops on the focus wheel. When you reach an extreme, whether it's close focus or infinity, the lens motor stops, but the impero knob keeps turning (you can turn the focus knob an unlimited amount of times). This means you have to keep track of the knob position relative to your marks. If you turn past infinity, you have to keep track of where infinity is, in case you need to turn back to closer focus marks. I found this to be the strangest feature. I apologize in advance if the shipped models do have stops in it. This is what Curt showed me, and I have to assume that he wouldn't show me an unfinished product. There were also a few skips in the motor when turning the impero. While the motor wasn't attached to a lens, the motor didn't always correspond the movement of the focus knob. It happened twice.

Regarding usability, it's fairly complicated. Because it operates off of bluetooth, there's two-way communication between the Inclino and Impero. Because of this, you have to wait for the motor to tell the Impero that its ready. There's a lot of waiting for LEDs on the Impero to blink a certain amount of times, which tells you that the motor is on, it's calibrated to the lens, and it's ready to use. With the Bartech, you turn the BFD on, the receiver on, and you're done. Some say that manually calibrating is time consuming, but if 20 seconds is considered time consuming, then yes, they're right. The viewfactor, with calibrating and waiting for LED communication, takes 5-10 seconds. That's a net 10 seconds or so, and I dont think is worth the extra complexity. If an Impero and Inclino was not given to me without an instruction manual, or Curt standing next to me, I do not think I would be able to set it up again.

Conclusion:

It's a really attractive product with an ambitious feature set. However, all of this added complexity takes its toll. Focus control devices are about reliability, usability, and precision. The last thing anyone on set wants to wait for is an issue with a focus device. Maybe that's not the LAST thing, but its pretty close. They need to just work.

At this point, I'd be very hesitant to bring this to a professional set, ESPECIALLY if I hadn't worked with the 1st AC before. If it's someone I've worked with, and we work well together, then they'd hopefully just deal. But if it's a new AC, they would be annoyed. The fact is that their job is on the line if focus is off. The ergonomics are questionable, the reliability is spotty, and the complicated LED signals and large amount of buttons makes this product difficult to learn.

This is my honest opinion, and as unbiased as I can get. Please feel free to refute anything I have said.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Your feedback is fairly consistent with what was presented by others. Thank you for sharing.

Just wanted to add that, if you are overseas, the cheque can take up to 4 months to clear and cost a few hundred of dollars in exchange rates and bank fees. Once I received a US $150 cheque and I had to throw it to the bin because it would be more expensive to bank it!

 

[Carlo Rho]

Thanks Alex.
I'll call them for my wire refound. It's funny that they ask a 50$ fee for the wire when they earned bank interests on my money for 1year and a half...

 

[Alex Kornreich]

Agreed, I was quite surprised by the $50 fee. I decided to go with the check just on the principle that I didn't want to lose a single penny on my transaction with Viewfactor. This was the biggest headache I've ever experienced with a vendor.

Then again, had I had my $3k since April 2008, I would have probably lost 30% of it in the stock market, so maybe this was a blessing in disguise.

 

[Rich Schaefer]

Great review Alex, thank You for posting.

 

[CVB]

They offer a check or wire transfer. For a wire transfer, there's a $50 fee. For a check, it's free, but it took me 4 weeks to get mine. I personally went to Viewfactor yesterday, and they had my check ready for me after calling them initially 4 weeks ago.

When we process your orders we pay a 2.5% fee right off the top in credit card transaction fees. For an order in the range of $2000 thats about $50. We also have to pay our bank an additional $50 for the wire back to customers. For any of you that think we're making money on your money I hate to disappoint but that is far from the case.

While at Viewfactor, I spoke to Curt, who I have to say is very nice and helpful. I think the reason he's not updating anymore is because there's just too many variables still up in the air, and he wants to stop disappointing people. However, he's picked up the phone every time I called, so I think that's the preferred method of communication at this point.

I'm putting together updates that will be posted this evening on the main thread.

The build quality of the controller is fine, and feels fairly solid. However, having used a Bartech for several years, which is made of metal, there's no comparison. The Bartech feels bulletproof and will last 10 years, not sure about the viewfactor.

Bartech makes a wonderful piece of kit. We opted for a custom Nylon enclosure because I personally hate square boxes. We use a nylon 6/6 material (the same as is used on the intake headers of corvettes). It is very durable and light weight and does not feel cold in the winter or hot in the summer. If anyone ever has an issue with one breaking (which is difficult) then we will repair it at no cost to them.

Also, because the controller is almost a perfect circle, there's nowhere to rest your palm while trying to precisely pull focus. You kind of have to suspend your palm while using it, which is a bit uncomfortable.

Agreed.. i have huge hands so I am biased. We will have a screw-on handle available soon after we have shipped substantial volumes.

Finally, there's no stops on the focus wheel. When you reach an extreme, whether it's close focus or infinity, the lens motor stops, but the impero knob keeps turning (you can turn the focus knob an unlimited amount of times). This means you have to keep track of the knob position relative to your marks. If you turn past infinity, you have to keep track of where infinity is, in case you need to turn back to closer focus marks. I found this to be the strangest feature.

I went with an endless turning wheel because of the other features that have yet to be introduced. We are going to have a skater-dolly type system as well as a pan/tilt system that will be able to be controlled by Impero. If the knob only had one turn then moving a dolly 5-10 feet would be very difficult as the movement would be very jerky. That said we are making a marking ring that will limit the travel to 360 degrees as you arent the first to notice the lack of stops.

There were also a few skips in the motor when turning the impero. While the motor wasn't attached to a lens, the motor didn't always correspond the movement of the focus knob. It happened twice.

The motor you were playing with was a return from a few months ago. The new motors and imperos do not exhibit any twitching or random movement.

Regarding usability, it's fairly complicated. Because it operates off of bluetooth, there's two-way communication between the Inclino and Impero. Because of this, you have to wait for the motor to tell the Impero that its ready. There's a lot of waiting for LEDs on the Impero to blink a certain amount of times, which tells you that the motor is on, it's calibrated to the lens, and it's ready to use. With the Bartech, you turn the BFD on, the receiver on, and you're done. Some say that manually calibrating is time consuming, but if 20 seconds is considered time consuming, then yes, they're right. The viewfactor, with calibrating and waiting for LED communication, takes 5-10 seconds. That's a net 10 seconds or so, and I dont think is worth the extra complexity. If an Impero and Inclino was not given to me without an instruction manual, or Curt standing next to me, I do not think I would be able to set it up again.

Alex, I find it hard to believe that a Bartech (on a never calibrated lens) can be setup in less than 10 seconds and ready to shoot. Prestons do the same calibration technique as we do and takes just as long. I can speed up the limit finding if you dont give a damn about if a lens is destroyed or not. Another note is that the Imperos in the field do not have lens limiting enabled yet. The new firmware allows +/- limits to be set extremely fast.

It's a really attractive product with an ambitious feature set. However, all of this added complexity takes its toll. Focus control devices are about reliability, usability, and precision. The last thing anyone on set wants to wait for is an issue with a focus device. Maybe that's not the LAST thing, but its pretty close. They need to just work.

I agree. I am fixing firmware issues that are 90% of the problems we currently encounter.

The ergonomics are questionable, the reliability is spotty, and the complicated LED signals and large amount of buttons makes this product difficult to learn.

You held the Impero in your hand for less than a minute Alex, not only that it was a returned unit that I was in the process of debugging. Also keep in mind that we have not released the second firmware for the system that takes care of every issue that has been mentioned to us over the past few months. Your a nice guy and I appreciate your comments on this but I disagree that its complicated. Our system is no more complicated than a Bartech or Preston. The new Preston unit has a total of 16 buttons (to our 12) and all sorts of menus to dive through. Same with C-Motion. Bartech has a couple potentiometers and a few buttons but the calibration procedure has to be learned and definitly takes more than a few minutes to get the hang of. All systems on the market have a learning curve associated with their use.

 

[Mitch Gross]

The new Preston unit has a total of 16 buttons (to our 12) and all sorts of menus to dive through. Same with C-Motion. Bartech has a couple potentiometers and a few buttons but the calibration procedure has to be learned and definitly takes more than a few minutes to get the hang of. All systems on the market have a learning curve associated with their use.

Not be nit-picky and I'm not taking sides in anything here, but the new ARRI system has just a few controls that are incredibly easy to understand and use. The manual is more a pamphlet than anything and there's a big ol' "Cal" button for calibrating the lens scale. So not all units are so complicated or have a huge learning curve.

I think I learned ow to use a Bartech BFD in about 10 minutes about 10 years ago. Takes me maybe 30 seconds to refresh myself when I pick one up once every six months or so.

 

[Jim Bartell]

Alex, I find it hard to believe that a Bartech (on a never calibrated lens) can be setup in less than 10 seconds and ready to shoot.

Actually, he didn't say 10 seconds, he said 20. And I absolutely guarantee a lens range of travel can be set up in that time. I've seen it and done it. Obviously, this doesn't include marking the knob or mounting the motor, but I'd guess that takes about the same amount of time on everyone's units. This only applies to calibrating the motor travel.

Bartech has a couple potentiometers and a few buttons but the calibration procedure has to be learned and definitly takes more than a few minutes to get the hang of. All systems on the market have a learning curve associated with their use.

I have shown people how to use the BFD in 5 minutes and that was all the training they needed. It was designed to be as intuitive as possible. And we don't need to initialize the transmitter with the receiver or assign each motor a bus address. You plug the motor in, calibrate it and go.

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

I'll say this shortly. Using the Viewfactor is a nobrainer and so is setting it up. I'm sure it Will be more difficult to learn as more features are being introduced but the basic functionality of the system is just as simple to learn and use as any other system out there. Curt's point about the system being made of plastic is very valid. At first I didn't like it but he has a very good point about weather considerations and weight. Holding an Arri or Bartech in low temperatures is not a joy as the metal sucks the cold which is then transferred to you hands. Weight is also a major factor here if you're holding the thing for the better part of a day. I'm looking forward to some kind of hard stop solution though - that is a much needed feature.

 

[Joel Kaye]

Not be nit-picky and I'm not taking sides...The manual is more a pamphlet than anything and there's a big ol' "Cal" button for calibrating the lens scale. So not all units are so complicated or have a huge learning curve.

To be fair, the Impero has a big CAL button too.

1) Power on, hit the Cal button and watch the lens set limits and go focus.

There's the whole manual if you just want to focus with an Impero.

It just happens to do a lot of other cool stuff - and yeah, you'll need to learn a little more if you want to use a little more.

On the Birger Impero they've already programmed a 4 rotations of the Impero to 1 rotation of the lens. That basically turns a Canon lens into a PL lens as far as focusing goes. OK, I actually think it's better than a PL lens setup for several reasons. I'm glad I don't have a hard stop forced on me. If Curt comes up with an optional way to do it then that's extra cool.

 

[axel ebermann]

I would like to jump in here because I actually have an Impero/Inclino system, that I just used on a shoot in Germany.
I did not just test this thing - I actually worked with it.

In my humble opinion it is incredibly easy to use. You push ONE button to calibrate the unit to the lens. And ONE button to sync the controller to the motor, which you rarely have to do anyway.
I showed it to people on the set and everybody was able to use it by themselves within a minute.

I do not think you could make that any easier.

I actually like the shape of the Impero (I have big hands too...) and yes - I am sure there are still some issues to be resolved and features to be improved - but let's face it:

This system goes for under 3k. The bang for the buck is incredible.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Actually, he didn't say 10 seconds, he said 20. And I absolutely guarantee a lens range of travel can be set up in that time. I've seen it and done it. Obviously, this doesn't include marking the knob or mounting the motor, but I'd guess that takes about the same amount of time on everyone's units. This only applies to calibrating the motor travel.



I have shown people how to use the BFD in 5 minutes and that was all the training they needed. It was designed to be as intuitive as possible. And we don't need to initialize the transmitter with the receiver or assign each motor a bus address. You plug the motor in, calibrate it and go.

Jim,

Do you just spend your time circleing over Viewfactor's head waiting to pounce at any given opportunity? Had you chosen to offer some SUPPORT to Curt at this time, I (And I am sure others) would have thought, "this guy has a lot of class".

Sadly that's not the case. The other guys post was potentially damaging to Curt and a lot of the comments are un-founded or incorrect, Curt was TRYING to set the record straight. Give Curt some breathing room OK?

Mitch... This was a very very poor time to bring up the ARRI. Yes it's wonderful gear, and it's also $15,000.00... That's a different customer man...
Not for the people on this thread, and even if it was, very very very poor timing / placement.

Sorry you have to put up with this Curt.. You have enough problems...

Jay

Jay

 

[Jim Bartell]

Jim,

Do you just spend your time circleing over Viewfactor's head waiting to pounce at any given opportunity? Had you chosen to offer some SUPPORT to Curt at this time, I (And I am sure others) would have thought, "this guy has a lot of class".

Sadly that's not the case. The other guys post was potentially damaging to Curt and a lot of the comments are un-founded or incorrect, Curt was TRYING to set the record straight. Give Curt some breathing room OK?

Jay

Jay,

Can you explain to me why it is OK for Curt to respond to comments he regards as inaccurate regarding his system but if I do the same thing I am somehow being "classless"? Curt is certainly allowed to try to "set the record straight" but so am I.

And how can someone's opinions be incorrect? They are his feelings regarding the system after examining it, nothing more and nothing less. You can agree or disagree, but it's like saying someone who doesn't like a particular food is wrong. Nothing (including my system) appeals to everyone but that doesn't mean anyone who doesn't like it is incorrect, they just have an opinion that differs from yours. I thought the point of this forum was to allow people to share all their opinions.

And I spend most of my time building and shipping systems, thanks for asking.

 

[paul engstrom]

I've been very impressed with the added features that the Impero has. Built-in record start/stop, lens limiting, knob limiting--expandable knob limiting actually, FIZ control (not just focus), set focus points, etc. And now I found out there's still more to come.

Thanks Curt.

and thanks too Jim -- the Bartech system has been great to me too.

 

[Nils J. Nesse]

Paul, it's good to hear that there are actually happy users out there!

 

[Kwan Khan]

Paul, it's good to hear that there are actually happy users out there!

Agreed.....

 

[Mitch Gross]

Mitch... This was a very very poor time to bring up the ARRI. Yes it's wonderful gear, and it's also $15,000.00... That's a different customer man...
Not for the people on this thread, and even if it was, very very very poor timing / placement.

Jay,

I respectfully disagree. I did not take sides and have not said anything bad about View Factor. Abel sells VFS product and once Curt gets everything sorted out we intend and would be proud to sell this product. All I did was respond to a comment that I felt was misleading to the point of inaccuracy.

The comment was comparing the VF system to to other systems and Preston was included, a system that is much more expensive than the VF. So if the comparison is going to be made for products in that price range, then I feel it is proper to make an accurate statement.

Jim Bartell can defend himself, but I will say that I personally know that he has been open and helpful to Curt and his project in the past. But he is also a manufacturer with a product whose reputation it is his right to protect. If someone says something negative about his equipment and Jim feels it is technically incorrect, why should he not try to set the record straight?

Jay, you are an important member of the REDuser community, but you are not a moderator of the forum. There are many, many things I could say about a great deal of posts that appear here every day from a variety of people. But I generally choose not to unless I really feel that there is a compelling need.

 

[Constantine Tyrintzis]

Hello. Curt is right about the speeding procedure of auto calibration, its fast enough and I think if it was quiker it would rip of the lens. I dont know what is all this about speeding process if you think you dont have 10-15-20 seconds on a set then what will you do if you want to dynamically balance an unusual camera set on a steadicam, and I can come up and tell you so many things that you already know that take some time on set.
I believe you should stop facing these procedures as a racing car. Seconds are just seconds, if it was minutes then I would agree.
About the plastic, I have dropped mine several times cause Iam always rushing doing more than one thing at the time. There is no cracks or even marks on the unit.
I have the old motor and the impero is not updated with any firm ware and there are some bugs there, but I excepted a pre unit and I have to live with it until I get the update.
Guys please business is bad as is , and everybody knows that Curt is not giving up on this, He needs better comunication with customer yes, he needs to hurry up and deliver yes, but he is not giving up, or take your money and run, so you can either take your refound, and he has to speed that process up as well, or give him the time he needs to deliver .
Please Curt keep promised deadline from now on. Thats what I ask and needs to be done .
The unit is incredible for its price and not only for this price range.
Thanks
P.S. i idnt see anything bad written about bartech nor Jim as he is very good with his business and customers, if you consider 10sec + - as a bad comment what can I say, are we racing? Jim hasnt said anything bad either just was accurate as always has been corecting 10 to 20 secs and learning curve is different for every individual, There are people who want to read very carefully the manual before touching a unit, and other who learn by trial and error. Though I think first is best, I always find my self doing the second:biggrin:

 

[Alex Kornreich]

First of all, I'd like to apologize for creating any extra conflict in the never ending Viewfactor saga. There's enough conflict already, given that the Viewfactor update thread is as long as the David Mullen thread...

Curt,

The Impero will be able to control a dolly with a pan/tilt system!? My first reaction is "holy shit!" My second reaction, the quote "keep it simple, stupid" comes to mind (btw, I'm not calling you stupid. You're actually probably about 15 times as smart as I am). When I pre-ordered the Viewfactor, I thought I was buying a simple, wired/wireless follow focus, kind of like what's been on the market for many years, but it's actually much more than that. I'm to blame for the difference in expectations as to what I thought I was getting, and what you're trying to deliver. This is why I became particularly agitated with the extremely long delay. I have a feeling that there are many people in the same boat as me, who didn't know they were buying something as infinitely upgradeable.

Regarding the 2.5% fee on credit cards that gets charged to you, I paid with a wire transfer, so how does this apply to me? And this brings me to my next point...

No more excuses. People have been screaming for updates, and paying boatloads of money for wireless FF rentals while they wait for your system. Myself included. You've been stringing people along with bogus deadlines and reasons so they don't make a run on refunds. This is standard practice for companies, especially startups, except it usually doesn't go on for years. All you need to do is make a product that works, THEN release it. Not vice versa. And certainly don't announce a new product (wireless origo) before the old one is finished.

Jay,

Seriously? There wasn't a single thing "that was unfounded and incorrect". The motor twitched. The controller has no place for your palm. There were no stops in the focus wheel. And it's somewhat complicated to a non tech-oriented person (like many ACs). I guess you're okay with someone borrowing your money while they try to engineer the impossible. That's called being a venture capitalist, not a customer.

Then you go on the offensive against Jim and Mitch, when they said nothing even slightly off base? They operate some of the most respectable vendors in the professional film industry. Ive purchased an MB20, FF4, OConnor 2060 and a bunch more from Abel, and had phenomenal experiences. Great communication, best prices, and when my FF4 didn't come in, they gave me a loaner. And Jim is famous for not only his product, but his support as well. And I've been using a Bartech for many years (rented, then purchased), and never a single problem.

It seems the Viewfactor is working out for a bunch of people, which, believe it or not, I'm glad to hear, I tried to be one of those people. It's unfortunate that the only time I got to test it out was when I was picking up my refund check after 18 months of waiting.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Gentlemen,

I am not talking about facts, I am talking about character. There's an expression, "don't kick a man when he's down".

Jim your system is built and finished. It has a flawless reputation. So you are in a nice position.

Mitch, you don't build these things you sell them.

You guys are trying to paint a picture of "so what's the problem, we said nothing incorrect".

If neither of you have the empathy, or compassion to understand the poor timing, or underlying effect of your posts, then there's no way I will be able to communicate it to you.

No Mitch I am not a moderator, simply a member.. And in this case that's enough.

Alex, your post tried to come off as "objective" when it really just came off as a pissed off customer who took a shot at Curt. Perhaps you did not mean it that way, but it did. One main reason is that you made a lot of assumptions off a faulty product. It's not the fact that you did this, but the fact that your "one minute" test revealed what you THOUGHT were problems with the production unit. It was your next step that blows me away, you JUST POSTED... I haved worked with more vendors than I can think of in the last 7 months (Including ARRI, with their wireless follow focus) and if I posted every problem I had with various equipment without checkinig with the company firist, I would A: Look like an idiot, and then B: RUIN my relationship with the very people I work with.

But I'm a professional, if I have an issue with a product, I CALL THE COMPANY, and tell them, I.E. "Ok Curt when I was there I felt your product has this issue, and that issue.. I wanted to get your feedback before I post. I still may post what I thought, but I'd also post Curt's feedback on what I saw. (In your case if you had done this, you most likely would not have posted most of what you wrote).

Bottom line Alex: I think you're pissed at Curt and your "review" was a shot in the nuts for making you wait so long and failing to come up with a product in due course. It's plain and easy to see. Your "review" was a parting shot.. And then Jim and Mitch seemed unable to see this fact, and threw fuel on the fire, which did not make them look too good either.

I don't know Jim.. But I do know Mitch, and we're friends in that I think we like each other well enough.. I certainly would not call him a bad person in any way, but I do think his post was poorly timed based on my interpretation of the events.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But from my point of view.. I'm pretty sure I'm right.

One last thing: Alex if you think I am saying you are WRONG for being Mad a Curt.. I am NOT. I'm sad to say, there are reasons to be upset. I'm just from the school of "don't air dirty laundry in public". Sadly this is where it gets complicated. Curt started this forum for public feedback, but missed deadlines and long waits have now turned this form of communication against him.

I dunno, this is where it gets real tricky.

Jay