Video expert - Film virgin

[multifocus]

Sorry if this has been tackled in other threads but as a video cameraman for 10 years I'm looking to invest in RED.

I'm guessing that I'm not just going to pick the RED up and start shooting with it. What will the transition be like going from Digibeta, HDCam and XDcam to the RED? What new skills / knowledge will I require and is the RED still for someone who loves to go out on their own?

I'm not worried about post as I'm lucky enough to work on an Avid Adrenaline and Final Cut but it's the whole prime lens thing that's alien to me.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

I guess what is difficult to get your head around is the whole RAW mechanics (that's very different than baked results video cameras usually give) and in-camera ISO ratings that are not changing how the image is being recorded (If I in deed got it right, If I'm talking crap, correct me).

These are words from an enthusiast, I'm not a RED owner, but I spend lots of time on the forums and people's contribution were a great help.

And what about the lenses? Do you dislike not working with zooms?

 

[multifocus]

Wow.... you can zoom with the RED too? Great.... is that just manual or servo assist if required? My knowledge of working with lenses other than with my video cameras is with stills!

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Well, you can mount B4 broadcast lenses on RED (RED sells an adapter), but you lose light and only works with 2K (not sure about 3K).

Zooms for 35MM are a problem, if the zoom range is big, the size and weight go along, not mentioning price (Don't know your budget)... However with the Birger mount you can use Still lenses, not sure which ones, I guess some Canons but can't recall what others (more info on the Lens area of the forum under the Birger thread).

If I were to invest on lenses for a RED One (with budget in mind) I'd consider an extreme Wide, a Wide-Medium Tele Zoom and an extreme Tele (all Still lenses if possible).

You should post on the Lens area of the forum so more experienced people would orient you about that.

 

[Erik Bien]

Three of the four lenses RED makes are zooms.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

The zooms are manual, but you can mount a motor on most for remote/servo controll...

 

[multifocus]

Thanks everyone I'll ask the lens forum about still lenses to start me off.

 

[bobbystone]

"Video" shooting on a RED

"Video" shooting on a RED

It's going to be difficult. The RED is really more like a digital 35mm production camera than anything else. It's going to be heavier and more awkward on the shoulder, less set up for quick run and gun. It's more suited for production style shooting wher eyou have time to set up each shot. For instance, you have to go through a menu to set audio levels.. It does make very impressive pictures though!

 

[Adrian Sims]

With a Red One kiss goodbye to -

1) a "snap to focus" button
2) anything 'auto', from focus and zoom through to shutter speed
3) built-in ND filters when shooting outdoors - screw 'em on or use a matte box with filter trays
4) a built-in microphone, as per Sony Z1
5) recording just 5 seconds from hitting the camera's power button
6) a straight spine (if doing long shoulder-mount shoots like weddings - I say this in jest, it's not actually too bad for short stints of the sticks)

Say hello to -

1) mindblowing resolution - on a SD or HD timeline have the flex to zoom-in (crop) like never before before piexaltion sets in
2) pulling back detail that was forever lost with non-RAW formats
3) never doing a 'tape capture' before editing
4) charging more for your work, thanks to the 2K, 3K or 4K selling point your competitors may not have
5) not getting turned down at film festivals because "only" shot on DV or HDV.

Peace out ...

 

[Denis Buhot]

Thanks everyone I'll ask the lens forum about still lenses to start me off.

Well, a 2.8 , 17-35mm nikon, will give you results you've never dreamt of... Not to speak of a 4.5, 500mm, or a sigma (nikon mount), 5.6, 300-800mm. I come from video myself, almost every format ever available, and I use or have used these above three lenses on my red... jawdropping !

Don't worry about the lack of built-in rotating ND filters. Red one cmos sensor is way less sensitive as the tri-ccd sensors you're used to. A nikon 2.8 17-35mm will hardly need more than one occasional ND and a polarizing filter to cut off extra light, if you're to stick around 4/5.6, where the lens is at its real best. Moreover, you may try to play a little with shutter speed if you definitely need much less light than available.

As stressed by others, rather consider the power consumption, the absence of sleep mode and the weight of the beast in case you plan to use it on efp/eng projects.

 

[Barry Gregg]

Another very definite change from HD Video; what you see on the monitor is NOT what you get. RAW R3D files have much more detail and dynamic range. We have shot scenes in full sunlight with little or no fill that looked terrible on the monitor. Once the files have been properly processed in post they look fantastic. Like film the video monitor just let you see an interpretation of the image, but not the full image.

Shoot and play and process, long before you take on a paying gig!

Enjoy! Learn! Welcome to the revolution!

 

[Nick Gardner]

Go Read

The ARRI 35 book by John Fauer
The American Cinematographers Manual
Professional 16/35mm Cameraman's Handbook

That should get you started.

Nick

 

[multifocus]

So are you saying that I don't have to spend a fortune on RED lenses to get me started? Will reasonably priced stills lenses (with RED adapter) like a $700 17-35mm Nikon be a good starting point just to get me out there shooting. I'm reluctant to spend big bucks straight away before I really know what I need for a variety of scenarios. I'm no film maker more of a corporate adverts guy who also sells HD stock footage through Getty.

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Hi multifocus,

I am doing exactly what you propose in your last post (and I have from pretty much similar background). First, I am running with my collection of nikon lenses to kind of ease me into the whole Red thing. They are the same lenses I use on my Nikon D300 so I am really used to them - all old mechanical Nikons which I love. This sharply reduces the initial cost of the camera. From what I have read there is really no compromise in terms of optical quality using the Nikons. It is more issues like the short throw on some of the more modern Nikons which is a problem (but I am using Ai and pre Ai lenses which have a longer throw).

Rob
PS camera should be here within the next couple of weeks!

 

[multifocus]

Hi Rob,

That's really good to hear and thanks for letting me know. 2 weeks.... How exciting, it must be like having your Birthday and Christmas at the same time!

OK so I have the lenses, determination and some petty cash set aside. The only obstacle now is the wife!

 

[Denis Buhot]

Hi Rob,

That's really good to hear and thanks for letting me know. 2 weeks.... How exciting, it must be like having your Birthday and Christmas at the same time!

OK so I have the lenses, determination and some petty cash set aside. The only obstacle now is the wife!

you've made the point.. exactly so... don't sell the wife though...

 

[James Press]

*Lots* of hot dudes are using Nikons. Re nikon zooms: just one proviso--needless to say, they can really only be used as variable primes.

 

[multifocus]

Anyone here want a new wife?

 

[Denis Buhot]

new wife ?

new wife ?

Anyone here want a new wife?

Here we go.. obsolescence obsolete !

 

[Steve Gibby]

Multifocus,

The type of production you said you do (corporate and stock footage) doesn't require you to go through some monster cine-style learning curve to shoot with RED One. You'll need to adjust your shooting style somewhat, as some of the posters on this thread have suggested.

In technology pedigree, RED One is most closely related to a DSLR stills camera, moderately related to a TV/video camera, and least related to a film camera. In field operation with RED One, some who shoot exclusively cine-style productions use strictly cine lenses, accessories (matte box, follow focus, etc.), and field workflow. Alternately, there is a huge percentage of RED One users who shoot what I call hybrid cine/EFP style production, smaller crew mobile productions using lighter setups with 35mm stills lenses either with or without cine accessories. There is also a certain percentage of RED One users who also use RED One as a straight EFP camera, with a B4 adaptor, B4 2/3" HD EFP/ENG zooms, RED EVF, and the form factor of an EFP camera. Me and my crews do all three of these types of productions and equipment setups on RED One.

I own multiple RED One cameras, with my first one being serial #8, and I've been heavily using them for cine, hybrid, and EFP productions for 14 months now. That said, for your types of productions (corporate, stock footage) let me de-mystify the use of RED One for you:

Your stated EFP production background has a lot in common with usage of RED One. Professional B4 2/3" users usually expose using zebras (which RED One has), they focus manually (which you do on RED One), iris is almost always manually controlled (it is also manual on RED One), and in a hybrid cine/EFP setup or straight EFP setup on RED One, the weight, feel, and ergonomics of RED One are similar to the professional EFP cameras you are used to.

For your types of productions using 35mm stills lenses, you can use a setup you're pretty familiar with: manual sight focusing quickly using RED One's 2:1 image magnification , quick manual exposure using zebras, screw on filters (ND in various strengths, polarizer), no matte box, and no follow focus. That field workflow is not a whole lot different than your experience with the straight EFP production with TV/video cameras. 35mm stills zooms are used as variable primes on RED One. In Hybrid cine/EFP style production on RED One get out of the habit of zooming to things. Shoot more cine-style and move the camera to the next framing, or use the zoom to re-frame then hit record.

Depth of field (DOF) will be inherently more shallow with 35mm optics in 4k and 3k on RED One than you are used to in a 2/3" production world. But then again, your corporate and stock footage work rarely requires hyper-shallow DOF, and is usually in apertures between f/4 and f/11, so your transition to a 35mm DOF world should be relatively easy.

For certain types of mobile productions with RED One, me and my crews have done all exposure via zebras, all sight focusing by the camera operators using using 2:1 image magnification and occasionally edge highlight, all lenses 35mm stills, all screw-on filters, and absolutely no matte boxes of follow focus units. At apertures from f/4 to f/16 RED One is quite easy to sight focus. With practice you can also effectively sight focus RED One at f/2.8 for many types of shots. Straight cine type workers sometimes can't get their heads around this type of workflow, but yes, it is being done extensively with RED One when it is the best choice for certain genres of productions. This recent post of mine has some pics of this type of setup with both a Nikon 80-200 zoom and a Nikon 17-35 zoom (Post #117): http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18746&page=12

As mentioned on this thread, RED shoots RAW. In your background you're used to shooting RGB video where the parameters and values of the footage are baked in at acquisition. You'll quickly learn to love RED One, where values aren't baked in at acquisition, and you can tweak them in post to get what you want. Just be sure to not over-expose footage (clipping). If quickly exposing with zebras, rotate the iris ring until you see a bit of zebra, then back it off to the point where the zebra has almost disappeared. In Build 16 of the camera there are little stoplights in the bottom of the EVF of LCD frame that let you know when you are in relation to RGB values. In Build 17 another small color icon has been added that also lets you know where your exposure is in relation to RAW values from the sensor.

I hope this simplifies the pathway for your transition to using RED One in the genres you work in. I produce/direct/shoot international and national network television productions, commercials, documentaries, etc., but I also have worked extensively in the two genres you mentioned you do: corporate and stock footage. You can view my stock footage on the Mammoth HD RED Footage Library link in my signature below.

Don't let your learning curve for using RED One intimidate you. It is not rocket science, and your learning curve will not be steep for using RED One in the genres of work you do. If you're curious about using B4 HD zooms on RED One, there is an active thread on this forum where I've posted some good info on that. You can also read through the threads on the EFP/ENG with RED forum here on RED User.

Have fun with RED One...it won't bite...and it can be as easy or complicated to use as you want to/need to make it!