VFX to color grade workflow (Premiere - After Effects - Davinci Resolve)

[Arman Safari]

Hi all,

Looking for some help/advice when it comes to the color grading workflow when incorporating vfx.

For the longest time I would avoid color grading in davinci resolve when working on a visual effect ridden video. Eventually I began grading my footage and placing my visual effects on top of that, but it was inefficient and I wasnt happy with the results.

As an example here are two videos demonstrating the extent of the vfx:
https://vimeo.com/276693340
https://vimeo.com/331477571

Currently, I'm wanting to lock my edit in Premiere, move my vfx shots over to after effects and proceed with rotoscoping/effects/compositing. Then hoping I can export out a tiff/dpx sequence to import into Davinci Rresolve. I'd like to grade the original raw footage and paste that grade onto the image sequence.

The issue I'm having is my trial didn't work. In After Effects and Premiere, I'm unable to have the clip be both 'redlogfilm' and 'IPP2' unlike Davinci Resolve. On top of that when I brought over a dpx sequence (with the same WB, Tint, ISO, color prof, etc) the grades I would copy and paste onto it didnt look the same as the graded Red clips.

I've attached a few screenshots illustrating my point. The Side by side shows the original red clip I graded on the left with the exact same grade applied to the dpx sequence on the left.

Overall these are new waters for me so I would appreciate any insight or advice on the issue. I would hate to compromise the color or the vfx and rather have the two live in harmony. Thank you

 

[Cole Sprague]

You can’t have a clip be REDlogFilm and IPP2 at the same time in any program. REDlogfilm is the older imaging pipeline. If you want to work with the log footage in IPP2 the correct settings are REDWideGamutRGB and Log3g10. To this you can apply one of the IPP2 rec 709 transforms in the last node of your color grading if you want to work with the 709 output.

 

[Arman Safari]

Amazing, had no clue. Would you say REDWideGamutRGB and Log3g10 on IPP2 give the best/most technically correct results? Or is it a matter of personal preference?

Just experimenting with it, it almost looks like it devoids the image of any color? Is this common or am I misusing.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Amazing, had no clue. Would you say REDWideGamutRGB and Log3g10 on IPP2 give the best/most technically correct results? Or is it a matter of personal preference?

We generally use RWG-RGB and Log3G10 in the project setup, and then we have several Powergrades (in lieu of LUTs) to get to a reasonable starting point. We also drag along a copy of the client's edited dailies to give us an idea of what they considered "a normal look" during their editing process. It's usually pretty trivial to match that look or take it further in final color.

 

[rand thompson]

Arman,

I don't have Adobe Premiere or After Effects but I think your may have one of two problems

Problem 1

Maybe the "Color Space/ Gamma" you are exporting out in the Tiff/DPX from After Effects is different than it was in Premiere.


Problem 2

The "Color Space/ Gamma" between Premiere and After Effects are the same. However, the "Color Space/ Gamma" of the Red .R3d in Resolve in different than what came out of After Effects


I'm going to demonstrate using Redcine-X as the program that I will be Exporting the DPX sequence from(In place of After Effects) and applying the same Lut in Resolve.


In Redcine-X

1)Here's the image in Redcine-X

2)I want to Export the DPX sequence out in a RWG-RGB/ LOG3G10 log format because that is how I will be grading the Red .r3d file in Resolve. So I use these settings and you can see the DPX sequence files in the folder

3) In Resolve, Like Marc said I want to setup my Project so that all of my R3D files import into a RWG-RGB/LOG3G10 log format to match the DPX file sequence. These are those settings

4) Now when I import both the DPX File Sequence and the matching RED R3D file into the Media Bin, they both are in the same RWG-RGB/LOG3G10 log format. and when I apply the same Hi Con/Very Soft IPP2 Output Transform Lut to them, They look exactly the same.

 

[rand thompson]

Arman,

I know sometimes the RWG/LOG3G10 workflow can seem a little complicated, but to explain the above more simply. I see you used the "legacy" workflow of " DRAGONcolor2/ RED logFilm" for you Red R3D clips in Resolve.

Did you use the same Colorspace/ Gamma Curve in your Adobe Premiere Project settings and were they maintained throughout the transfer from Premiere to After Effects and the export out of the DPX sequence from After Effects?

Also, another question, how are you saving the grades you made in Premiere and applying those grades in Resolve?

 

[Arman Safari]

Wow! Your reply was extremely helpful. This is the clearest explanation I've seen yet, much appreciated.

I realized the fault was the color spaces not matching.

Also, I mightve been worded that weirdly. I the grades I'm applying in Resolve were done in Resolve. I grade the original raw footage in Resolve, save those as either stills or in a powergrade album. Whenever a vfx shot is needed I just copy and paste them.
For after effects, I save the grade/color space by going to the main tab on interpret footage. In there I'm able to lock in the iso, white balance, etc.

Is legacy an outdated workflow or is it personal preference? I've personally been able to output some really good grades with DG2/Redlogfilm but if the ceiling is higher with RWG/Log3G10 then I'll definitely give it a look.

 

[Cole Sprague]

Legacy is the outdated workflow. RWG/Log3G10 is definitely the way to go!

 

[Arman Safari]

Sweet, I'll be moving forward with that. Thank you!

 

[rand thompson]

Arman,


Use what feels more comfortable for you to continue to do your jobs in for now and continue to better familiarize yourself with the IPP2 workflow. When you feel that you know it well enough to use it with confidence for jobs, then use the IPP2 workflow. Red is going forward with the IPP2 workflow from this point on.

 

[rand thompson]

Arman,


you might want to export a Lut out of Premiere that you can be used in either After Effects or Resolve to help "Standardize" your look across platforms. Here's a tutorial which explains how to do that. The tutorial actually starts discussing this at about the 2:04 minute mark.


Create Custom LUTs in Premeire! (And Other Programs)

By
Cody Pyper

 

[Arman Safari]

Thats a good way of going about it. Thank you Rand!