Very Hypothetical theory on widescreen and 24p

[Barry Green]

Now you're catching the vision.

When I said "clarity", think of it as speed ramping but in reverse. Instead of dealing with slow or fast motion, it would be the ability to affect the fluidity of the motion on an as-needed basis. Or slow & fast, if that's the way you want to go. And slightly slower or slightly faster, whenever you want.

The kids in the audience have grown up on films, yes, and they've grown accustomed to 24fps acquisition and playback in "quality" footage. But they've also grown up on hyper-fast frame rates in video games, where 24fps wouldn't cut it -- they want faster and faster frame rates, 60 or 100 frames per second. So Graeme's talking about something that gives us a new language to speak in, the tempo of frame updates.

 

[Barry Green]

I'm actually going beyond that Barry, and saying that a user-controlled constantly variable framerate (ramping, oscilating, patterns of fps), the level of granularity being a fps for every frame being possibly unique may open up possibilities we've not dreamed of.

Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about, and it is a very expansive idea. I was spelling it out in basic terms to assist in explaining it.

Now we just have to get you on the board of the DCI so you can get this implemented in DCI 2.0.

 

[Steve Gibby]

I try to keep an open mind about frame rates. Certain genres of productions lend themselves better to 24fps, and others lend them selves better to higher frame rates. To me, it’s a continual question of what frame rate most effectively tells the story - or individual portions thereof.

Each year I'm an invited judge for multiple national Emmy Awards competitions, usually the Prime Time, Daytime, and Sports competitions. Usually its a mix of being on the panels judging the entire programs, and also judging panels for individual crafts (directing, cinematography, editing, etc.). Especially in the last five to seven years of judging those competitions, I've noticed a marked increase in creative use of mixed frame rates and shutter speeds. What used to be traditional "24fps or 60fps all the way through" genres have morphed into a more liberal and creative use of alternate frame rates/shutter speeds/shutter angles - when it best suites portions of segments or even entire segments within the programs.

For example, the consistent Emmy winners in the sports documentary category, consistently shoot 24p for interviews, creative b-roll, and mood montages, but quite often 60p for fast motion sequences, to achieve glass smooth slo-mos when played back on a 24fps timeline. They also frequently use time lapse in telling the story, and creative movement on still photos to tell the story.

As another example, in the Daytime Emmy Awards I've judged, certainly there are some genres that tell their "in the now" story using 60i - most notably daytime dramas (soaps). But there are multiple other categories I've judged that increasingly use the formula I mentioned above that has taken hold in many sports sub-genres: that of multiple frame rates and shutter speeds (and angles) to best tell each individual portion or sub-portion of the story they're trying to tell. I'm currently on the blue ribbon judging panel for the Daytime Emmy Awards. I can't divulge what categories I'm judging, and obviously never will, because of NDA. But believe me, I'm really pleased with the increasing use of multiple frame rates, shutter speeds, and shutter angles being used to effectively tell stories.

Soaps and the evening news are only a small portion of the overall television programming produced each year. So are episodics – many of which are shot 24p (CSI, 24, etc.). Beyond soaps, news, and episodics, lies the vast majority of yearly television production: non-hardlined EFP production, which quite often uses the multiple frame rate/shutter speed/shutter angle approach I outlined above. Even some features are opting for this “combo” approach if it best tells the story (or portions thereof) they’re trying to tell the audience.

I like where Graeme is going with his daydreams. I also think he'll smile knowing that many television programs are increasingly doing something at the acquisition and editing stage that is related to what Graeme envisions at the viewing stage. Perhaps a combination of those two approaches is where everything will end up.

With its wide range of frame rates, shutter angles, shutter speeds, and lens options, RED plays perfectly into the digital cinema and non-hardlined EFP production paradigm I described above.

I analyze each production, and each segment or portion thereof, on the basis of "What camera, frame rate, shutter angle, shutter speed, and lens setup best tells the story?" - and then proceed accordingly - without bias, prejudice, tradition, or peer pressure making the decision for me. Delivery of masters obviously has to conform to the Producer's Guidelines for each network, and/or projection needs, so we have to always plan ahead carefully for that too.

 

[jpp]

Graeme is right to dream of yet unknown and unanticipated effects, because a fast, artifact-free pan (per Barry), however desirable, is too inconsequential an advantage in a dramatic work to add up to much.

Meanwhile, we already do know a lot about frame rates, and how audiences respond to different rates, and what we know doesn't suggest a wealth of unimagined narrative possibilities in variable real-time rates.

But what more to say? It's bound to be available sooner or later, so we'll find out.

 

[Dj Joofa]

When I said "clarity", think of it as speed ramping but in reverse. Instead of dealing with slow or fast motion, it would be the ability to affect the fluidity of the motion on an as-needed basis. Or slow & fast, if that's the way you want to go. And slightly slower or slightly faster, whenever you want.

Shooting variable speed film and storing on a medium and then playing it *asynchronously* later is fine. However, such a system would be a nightmare for live capture/display where it is not easy to synchronize the clocks (and the whole issue of PTS/DTS time stamps, etc.) on encoder and decoder.