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Varicam 35 4K first look: DRAGON is better

Michael Tiemann

Michael Tiemann

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Panasonic has just posted their "first look" at footage from the new Varicam 35 4K camera:


The shots themselves are among the best of any demo reel of the kind I have yet seen, so props to the cinematographers for great selections, great compositions, and really great variety. However...the actual color, contrast, and dynamic range--as presented by Vimeo--does not come close to what I have seen from my DRAGON (or others). Perhaps this is because the colorists just couldn't do as good a job with AVC-Ultra as other colorists can do with RAW. Perhaps this is because DRAGON just sees colors, highlights and shadows better than the Varicam. Go RED!
 
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Michael Tiemann said:
Panasonic has just posted their "first look" at footage from the new Varicam 35 4K camera:


The shots themselves are among the best of any demo reel of the kind I have yet seen, so props to the cinematographers for great selections, great compositions, and really great variety. However...the actual color, contrast, and dynamic range--as presented by Vimeo--does not come close to what I have seen from my DRAGON (or others). Perhaps this is because the colorists just couldn't do as good a job with AVC-Ultra as other colorists can do with RAW. Perhaps this is because DRAGON just sees colors, highlights and shadows better than the Varicam. Go RED!
Click to expand...
Can we see your reel?
 
When you know how to light it almost doesn't matter what camera you use these days.
 
I think that looks pretty damn spectacular. I would have no problem making good looking images if you stuck that camera in my hands.

Nick
 
I've used the Varicam 35 on several commercials and an entire season on a TV show shooting mostly exterior in available light and challenging lighting conditions. The camera rocks. The colors and rendering are great, the proxy system works fine. The whole system just works. I love my Dragon, but have no qualms choosing a Varicam for many projects. The LT is a nice addition as well. I was able to use it on a small set of spots.
 
Hal Long said:
I've used the Varicam 35 on several commercials and an entire season on a TV show shooting mostly exterior in available light and challenging lighting conditions. The camera rocks. The colors and rendering are great, the proxy system works fine. The whole system just works. I love my Dragon, but have no qualms choosing a Varicam for many projects. The LT is a nice addition as well. I was able to use it on a small set of spots.
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do you have any links to works you shot in Varicam 35/ LT. Footage on these cameras are very rare online
 
Haven't seen this before. That is gorgeous. Obviously the camera was put in capable hands.
This last NAB I saw some footage at the Panasonic booth, and I really disliked the motion blur (or lack of it) that the camera has. It's really hard to explain the issue I saw. If you looked at a still frame, most of it looked really good, but when in motion, there was something "videoy" about it. And it wasn't color, or shutter speed. I'm starting to wonder if it was the projection, because this reel shows none of the issues I saw. Very nice...
 
I'm looking at the varicam LT footage and infos for a few days and it seems to be a superb camera.
Ok there is no raw (but there is raw output in a new firmware this month and odyssey 7 compatibility), but when you have wonderful images out of the box and you just need to push one or two buttons in post to make it perfect, it's almost better than getting not so good images out of the box and having to use all the power of raw to just approach what the varicam can do.
Very Alexa like, I don't see a big difference with the previous season of "Orange is the new black" shot on Arri and this one on Varicam (just more resolution).
I played in Photoshop with just the log jpeg I found here https://www.flickr.com/photos/77787043@N05/sets/72157650251653581/ , I also played with some prores i've found and I loved it. The colors are perfectly balanced. The DR is crazy good (second best one after Arri I guess). I want one.
 
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Nick Gardner said:
I think that looks pretty damn spectacular. I would have no problem making good looking images if you stuck that camera in my hands.
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The half-hour demo they did of the new Varicam at NAB, which showcased the 5000 ISO mode, looked really, really good to me. And they assured us they did zero noise reduction, no processing, no nothing beyond color correction. I thought it was amazing-looking material.
 
Ugo Del said:
Can we see your reel?
Click to expand...

I'm still working on my reel...and it will be a long, long time before it's this good. Looking back at my initial comments (praising the quality, not praising the colors), I re-evaluated my comments in light of two more years of experience. I was being too harsh. That said, I also looked at the comments on vimeo, and the two scenes that most popped as "bad" for me were commented on here: https://vimeo.com/105522587#comment_12396481 . So I'm not the only one. Moreover, Michael Cioni gave two replies to that comment, the first acknowledging the challenging creative choice he had to make and the second mentioning that Panasonic, too, has not stood still with respect to color science, and that Varicam is even better this year than before. I concur with others that it's ISO 5000 feature is amazing. And I'm even happier now with my Weapon cameras compared to the EPIC DRAGONs I had two years ago. So everything is getting better.

I'm trying to get better, too!
 
And from Panasonic, concerning this reel: "Our very first reel for Cinema VariCam 35 shot in AVC-Intra 4K-422 called "First Look". New Cinema VariCam LT has same sensor as VariCam 35 and has AVC-Intra 4K-422 as well".
@16500$ I'm also surprised that we don't see more footage online. In France we start seeing features shot on Varicam though. Maybe it's just a question of time. But this camera is the closest thing to Arri for a very small price.
 
Varicam LT

Varicam LT

Hey, I have been on a conquest to upgrade my scarlet MX. I have been seriously considering this camera VS scarletW. Currently , some of the available footage is questionable and it really depends who's hands the camera is in. I did stumble across this footage of the recent LT in the right hands . Wow.

(2 minute review with sample clips)
https://vimeo.com/168413019

the final 1 minute commercial
https://vimeo.com/164111255

It's impressive
 
Kalechi Noel said:
I have been seriously considering this camera VS scarletW
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I'm in the same boat. The Varicam LT has now raw output. It's better than the Red in lowlight, colors are superb, DR is also better according to every test i saw. Red will launch a new sensor in one or 2 years probably, with better sensitivity, DR and colors, and it will last a few years then. But I could have that kind of sensor now .... and keep it for many years. Like many, resolution is not my priority. 2k and 4k with a S35 sensor is just what I need and what I wanted. Another thing is the customer service. I can bring the camera to the Panasonic office in my city. It's reassuring.
I love Red, a lot, but maybe it's time for me to try something different, and I will probably rent Reds sometimes. Anyway Scarlet and Raven are slow to come, it gives some extra time to think about it.
 
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As much as the LT looks nice, IMHO theres not even a contest between it and the S-W. 120fps 4K raw? 5K for oversampling? 2K ProRes simultaneously? They are not even in the same league.
The image out of the LT is nice, but there are many restrictions compared to what you can push the camera to, as opposed to the S-W. And the Dragon sensor is a notch nicer.
But to be fair, the only area the LT wins is having the native 5000 ISO possibility. But to me that makes it a rental item for the rare occasions that is necessary.
 
Daniel Stilling said:
As much as the LT looks nice, IMHO theres not even a contest between it and the S-W. 120fps 4K raw? 5K for oversampling? 2K ProRes simultaneously? They are not even in the same league.
The image out of the LT is nice, but there are many restrictions compared to what you can push the camera to, as opposed to the S-W. And the Dragon sensor is a notch nicer.
But to be fair, the only area the LT wins is having the native 5000 ISO possibility. But to me that makes it a rental item for the rare occasions that is necessary.
Click to expand...

I guess we all have different priorities. And tastes. We could argue the same against the Alexa/Amira, but the truth is they are everywhere and people pay a lot for them. The Varicam can shoot ungraded footage on P2 cards and simultaneously graded HD proxies on SD cards. Its sensor is bigger than the Alexa 2.8k sensor area and it is 4k, so it's a bit superior to the most used digital camera/format in the industry so far if we don't talk about colors/DR.
My friends don't know much about cameras, they don't care, but almost everytime they think a movie looks bad it's shot on Red. And I must confess that I think they're right most of the time unfortunately. Red is good with heavy grades, strong unnatural looks with tints, used in music videos, some commercials, but I never saw any feature shot on Red with natural colors, natural skin tones. If what people keep telling is true, that raw can create anything, why don't we see any gorgeous non VFX movie shot on Red? They can hire the best colorists in the world, they have money, but there is always something off in the result. Or everything has a tint (Gone Girl is nice but it's a yellow movie). Red features look graded, skins look artificially colored.
So telling "the only area the LT wins is having the native 5000 ISO possibility" is a bit unfair. If someone shoot narratives I think he would be happier with a Varicam, renting a Red for slowmotion or VFX (and that's what Hollywood does most of the time, shooting Arri and using Red for VFX and aerials). For more flashy things, slowmo, gimbals, drones, guys who like to play a lot in post, Red is their tool. There's no perfect tool. But I'm pretty sure I' m not the only one who bought a Red because I can't afford an Alexa, and I persuaded myself that I liked the image more than I do. The Varicam LT seems to be an answer to that. Seeing Light Iron tweaking the Red to get close to the look of the Alexa just comfort me more into getting a Varicam.
 
I guess we can agree to disagree. Please note on my post above the I used "IMHO" so this is all through my lens.
I always thought that the Alexa is the most overrated camera in the business, and I have caught a lot of flack for not conforming into what everyone "thinks" a DP should think.
There are several good looking RED films out there. You just have to chose using those as an example as well. I have seen plenty of bad looking Alexa films through the years.
In this day and age, you can make beautiful pictures with any of the top shelf cameras out there. That is, if you know what you are doing.
If that's the case, (again IMHO) it comes down to what cameras offer you the biggest flexibility as a tool. The Scarlet w offers you a much wider range of frame rates, more resolution, and an option for a couple of very popular baked in codecs or raw. It also offers you the flexibility of rigging up the camera as small or as big as you like. Several interchangeable lens mounts, OLPF's that you can set for your lighting situation, and not to mention a much simpler menu touch screen system, instead of an appendix of a control panel. The LT's control panel is my only real pet peeve with that camera. Feels like such an afterthought. Not to mention that every time you change frame rates or resolution you have to reboot the camera.
Does the LT give you nice pictures? Not a doubt in my mind. And so does the Scarlet, in a much easier and more satisfying way...
 
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