V Raptor Audio sync issue??

[Russ Fill]

Just got a report back from post working on a couple interviews that I just shot in 23.976 6K with audio running directly in to the camera via the break out cable. Seems that the audio is out of sync by a few frames on one clip and only 1 frame on a different clip ...I just took a look at the clips still on the card we used from the camera and can see that there is a sync issue with them.
Anyone have any info on this issue... Im using the 1.3.2 beta and the metadata says jammed to internal clock but I don't think that should make the audio shift.. especially if your going off of the boom directly in to the camera...
Any info would be welcome.
Thanks Reduser

 

[Russ Fill]

Ok Im still seeing and hearing from Post departments that the Audio that is ran directly in to the V Raptor via a audio cable and boom or wireless is out of sync by as much as 3 frames... Usually only 1 or 2...
Is anyone else experiencing this or know why this is happening...
I have done many test with a clap slate and smart slate and can see that the time code even if jammed with a Tenical or Locket box is off by about a frame or 2...
Ideas or options welcome... Just trying to see if Im the only one.
Cant imagine that with as many one man band or single op audio setups out there that someone hasn't seen a audio discrepancy.

 

[Jeremey Shelton]

I have ran audio both ways; internal using the RED XLR adapter and on my most recent shoot using Tentacle boxes to a MixPre10. In both cases, I have not run into sync issues…the onboard levels are another story

I’m sorry I wish I had some sort of help to offer but know it has to be frustrating seeing as how you’ve been looking into this since at least September.

You didn’t specifically say if you’ve spoken with them but has RED offered any solutions? I’m assuming they’d want you to send it in?

 

[Russ Fill]

Im in communication with RED and considering that 90 precent of the time I work on projects where Audio is not part of camera other then a reference I wanted to check around first before sending in the camera wanted to see if this was something I could fix by making sure I was setting all things correctly...
My feeling now is maybe there may be something that will need to be looked in to by RED...
Thank you for adding to the thread. Jeremey.. ever little bit helps..

 

[Richard Lonsdale]

Let us know how you get on with this. I had similar feed back from an editor on one particular project that shots with direct audio were inconsistently losing sync, but they just fixed it up without too much trouble, so I didn't get details on how common it was.

 

[Russ Fill]

Will do Richard, at this point I have seen it off by a single frame and also off by a few frames all in the same CF Express mag with a sync slate and Tencticals attached so still baffling.
As you said with a slate clapping its really not an issue to fix but I still would like to just line up with no issues.
Ill keep you posted.

 

[mike bollacke]

Hey Guys!
I just ran into this same issue. Doing a multi camera shoot with 3 VRaptors, 2 geminis, 1- monstro. All the DSMC2 cameras held Timecode and audio synced fine. All 3 Raptors were off between 2 and 4 frames. Each Camera was different. Kind of a big bummer as we were shooting an orchestra and sending reference audio and timecode with tentacles.. Post was using the multitrack recording with the same Timecode that was fed to cameras. Editor reached out to me to tell me the news... Did some tests on my own, and for sure saw the same issues ONLY on the DSMC3's. Unfortunately, we did not use GenLock on the shoot (haven't used it in the past 10 years at this point because we have not had TC or audio sync issues since the VRaptors.) we are doing tests Now with TC and Genlock and finding there is still slippage. Although, NOW it seems to be a consistent two frames on all the V's which thankfully can be offset in post. Without Genlock, Cameras TC is off anywhere from 1 to 4 frames depending on the clip. There is no consistency whatsoever. I've reached out to RED and they will be looking into it.

 

[Richard Lonsdale]

Hey Guys!
I just ran into this same issue. Doing a multi camera shoot with 3 VRaptors, 2 geminis, 1- monstro. All the DSMC2 cameras held Timecode and audio synced fine. All 3 Raptors were off between 2 and 4 frames. Each Camera was different. Kind of a big bummer as we were shooting an orchestra and sending reference audio and timecode with tentacles.. Post was using the multitrack recording with the same Timecode that was fed to cameras. Editor reached out to me to tell me the news... Did some tests on my own, and for sure saw the same issues ONLY on the DSMC3's. Unfortunately, we did not use GenLock on the shoot (haven't used it in the past 10 years at this point because we have not had TC or audio sync issues since the VRaptors.) we are doing tests Now with TC and Genlock and finding there is still slippage. Although, NOW it seems to be a consistent two frames on all the V's which thankfully can be offset in post. Without Genlock, Cameras TC is off anywhere from 1 to 4 frames depending on the clip. There is no consistency whatsoever. I've reached out to RED and they will be looking into it.

Thanks Mike, that's much more detailed and helpful than my findings.

 

[Russ Fill]

Hey Guys!
I just ran into this same issue. Doing a multi camera shoot with 3 VRaptors, 2 geminis, 1- monstro. All the DSMC2 cameras held Timecode and audio synced fine. All 3 Raptors were off between 2 and 4 frames. Each Camera was different. Kind of a big bummer as we were shooting an orchestra and sending reference audio and timecode with tentacles.. Post was using the multitrack recording with the same Timecode that was fed to cameras. Editor reached out to me to tell me the news... Did some tests on my own, and for sure saw the same issues ONLY on the DSMC3's. Unfortunately, we did not use GenLock on the shoot (haven't used it in the past 10 years at this point because we have not had TC or audio sync issues since the VRaptors.) we are doing tests Now with TC and Genlock and finding there is still slippage. Although, NOW it seems to be a consistent two frames on all the V's which thankfully can be offset in post. Without Genlock, Cameras TC is off anywhere from 1 to 4 frames depending on the clip. There is no consistency whatsoever. I've reached out to RED and they will be looking into it.

Thank you for adding this here.
I thought that maybe I was the only one...
Using almost the same setup with the Tentacles but have tried it with out also and had the same result..
Im hoping this will be a firmware update fix... As I don't really see what they would do to fix it if I sent in the camera... I have a feeling as time goes on we will start to hear a lot of V's if not all have the same issue...
Keep us posted as to what RED says... For me I contacted them and there wasn't much to say but send some clips and show us the issue.. After doing that they said to send in the the camera but Ive been so busy I really cant afford to send in my camera only to have them to not have a solution... So if anyone from RED or otherwise has had their V fixed of this issue let me know as Ill be a little more excited to send in my camera knowing there is a fix.

 

[Mitchell O]

Have encountered a horrendous sync issue with my RAPTOR today. Filmed a 30 minute presentation, the audio sync is off a few frames at the start and many seconds out by the end of the clip.

WTF is happening? Anyone else encountered something this extreme?

 

[Drew Baird]

Have encountered a horrendous sync issue with my RAPTOR today. Filmed a 30 minute presentation, the audio sync is off a few frames at the start and many seconds out by the end of the clip.

WTF is happening? Anyone else encountered something this extreme?

some context in your workflow will help inform if this is a camera issue (the same drift that some have been experiencing) or a workflow issue.

How were you recording the audio? External recorder or direct to camera? If direct to camera - Is the audio out of sync when playing back on the camera? Or just in your NLE? What was your project frame rate? R3D or ProRes?? Which NLE are you using? Does it have the same issue in Redcine X?

 

[Russ Fill]

some context in your workflow will help inform if this is a camera issue (the same drift that some have been experiencing) or a workflow issue.

How were you recording the audio? External recorder or direct to camera? If direct to camera - Is the audio out of sync when playing back on the camera? Or just in your NLE? What was your project frame rate? R3D or ProRes?? Which NLE are you using? Does it have the same issue in Redcine X?

This is a Camera issue... I have now heard and verified with several other Raptor owners that they are experiencing the same with very different setups.

For some context this occurs when plugged directly in to the camera audio system with a cable or even on the reference mic's on the front. Not sure what else could be done... Also it happens with all frame rates but was discovered when shooting 24fps and 24fps project rate...along with 29.97.
What is strange its not always 1 frame or 2 it varies from 1 to maybe 3 or 4 frames out of sync... and also varies before or after where the audio should be..
This is probably something that will need to be resolved by RED..
Im waiting to hear from them here on line...

 

[Russ Fill]

Hey Guys!
I just ran into this same issue. Doing a multi camera shoot with 3 VRaptors, 2 geminis, 1- monstro. All the DSMC2 cameras held Timecode and audio synced fine. All 3 Raptors were off between 2 and 4 frames. Each Camera was different. Kind of a big bummer as we were shooting an orchestra and sending reference audio and timecode with tentacles.. Post was using the multitrack recording with the same Timecode that was fed to cameras. Editor reached out to me to tell me the news... Did some tests on my own, and for sure saw the same issues ONLY on the DSMC3's. Unfortunately, we did not use GenLock on the shoot (haven't used it in the past 10 years at this point because we have not had TC or audio sync issues since the VRaptors.) we are doing tests Now with TC and Genlock and finding there is still slippage. Although, NOW it seems to be a consistent two frames on all the V's which thankfully can be offset in post. Without Genlock, Cameras TC is off anywhere from 1 to 4 frames depending on the clip. There is no consistency whatsoever. I've reached out to RED and they will be looking into it.

Hey Mike what did you do to correct or at least create a consistent issue here. Did you add stand alone Gunlock devices on each Raptor or did you have to teather them together some how???
Been struggling with this issue still and still no help from RED on how to remedy the problem... It it stayed at the same slip (say 1 or 2 frames) all the time then editors could just expect it but it varies every time you roll the camera or you get 3 clips the same and then it changes..

Hey RED how about a fix for this? Please:cheerful:

 

[Jay Ho]

I've been able to get around this via Genlocking. There's still a discrepancy, but it's a single frame rather than a variable amount.

Looks like there might be a fix in the beta firmware that was just released: https://www.red.com/download/v-raptor-firmware-beta