Using microphones on Scarlet / Epic without external preamp ?

[Jack Colquitt]

Hi,

Now the phantom power has been enabled on Scarlet / Epic, how many of you are using mini-jack / XLR
without preamp, or external device (not only to record, but mainly to improve quality), and just plug theirs mics directly ?

What kind of microphones, and for what results ?
And is the "high quality pre-amplifier and soft limiter" (read in the operation guide) so... high quality ?

After the firmware has been released, I read a lot of thread talking about inherent problems
with few microphones, and the bad soft limiter, but, the firmware evolve constantly, and there is no thread
talking "exactly" (or I didn't seen it, my apologies) to the use of direct connection between camera and microphones.

So, if you can just share your experiences, and gear, in few words, I think it will be very helpfull for the others ! ; )

Thanks

 

[Matt Gerard]

No way. Sorry, but being trained in audio, then moving slightly to the video side of things, I can't stand using the audio controls within our epic. I know I haven't spent a ton of time trying to tweak and get familiar with working with them, but I use a SoundDevices MixPre-D and its a beautiful thing. There's no onscreen replacement for a physical knob, in my eyes. The limiters are beautiful, the sound quality is clear. Battery life is another issue, though

But, I see where you are going with this, why use a mixer when you can plug directly into the cam? Under some circumstances that might be just fine, and for grabbing scratch tracks. In fact we just picked up a pair of the olympus 1/4" plug mics for just that reason.

So, no I just can't go directly into the camera. Its just not easy to make adjustments. Plus, having to take over the touch screen or futzing with the redmote to tweak audio really annoys my DP.

 

[Jack Colquitt]

I understand... but, at the quality side, when you tried to plug directly on camera (if you forget the adjustement control downside)
what did you think, objectively, about the sound ? good or bad ? no difference ? tolerable ? "rather kill myself" ? ; )

 

[Marc Wielage]

It's all a question of how bad the sound can be before it affects your project. I always say, the camera operator already has enough to worry about: focus, exposure, composition, zoom position, keeping the camera steady, anticipating the actors' movements. Expecting them to also be conscious of audio and worry about levels and sound quality is too much to ask for.

I agree with Matt above that even a MixPre can be a perfectly acceptable small mixer. I'm still nervous about not having a separate sound backup, but this little mixer has better audio circuitry than any digital camera I've ever encountered (and I've worked with several dozen).

 

[jimhare]

I have used both wireless lapel mics and a Rode NT2 directly into the Epic/Scarlet, using the camera's phantom power (on the NT2) and preamps.

Basically, if you get the settings right you can achieve excellent results, but it's much much easier to get the settings wrong and get weirdness.

I have taken to turning the limited off permanently as it only seems to get in the way, pumping the sound and so on.

Still a ways to go for the audio to be truly useful and bulletproof, but if you work at it you can get very usable results.

 

[Jack Colquitt]

@Marc

Thanks for your reply Marc, and I understand your point of view, but it's just
a technical question.. "is it or not possible to do something with another thing ?"
I don't speak about common sens, or methodology....
If you prefer, it's like if I asked "do you think a RED DSMC can survive a 2000 feets fall ?"
Technical..... not logical ! Thanks. ; )

@ Jim

"...using the camera's phantom power (on the NT2) and preamps."

You mean internal camera preamp, right ?
Except turning the limiter off, did you do something special in audio preset, or in the use of the micro ?

Does anybody knows if RED will improve the soft limiter in next firmware revision, or are they fully satisfied satisfied with that ?
Because, if the audio in DSMC stays so hazardous, they won't sell lots of PRO I/O module just for sound work !!