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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Using EPIC with the KiPro Mini

Steve Johnson

Steve Johnson

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Posted this is another thread but I think its just become buried...

Just wondering, from those using the KiPro Mini to record ProRes or DNxHD on EPIC:

a. What sort of CF cards are you using?
b. What size of CF cards are you using?
c. How much ProRes or DNxHD footage can you get on a CF card?

Trying to work out the best approach for cards, size of cards and footage counter? e.g. Are you using your old RED CF cards, say 16GB and how much are you getting on them recording ProRes or DNxHD?

Thanks in advance...

:))
 
Hi Steve,
I have done this a few times for clients and it seems to work great. The firmware update (2.6) for the KiPro matches the clip name etc. and triggers record remotely from the Red or Epic.
I use the Sandisk Extreme Pro CompactFlash 64GB cards.
Approx. 30 minutes at 422 HQ.
Just like Red, AJA does thorough testing for sustained read/write speeds, page in/outs, and lots of other metrics I don't understand. They have a very short list of approved cards. I'm not sure I'd get anything smaller than 64 GB.
The Red CF cards may not work at all; I seem to remember people having no luck trying to repurpose them.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Hi Harry

Thanks for that. It's good to know what other people are using. Our EPIC will mainly be out on drama so we are getting a 64GB 4 pack and maybe a few 128GB SSD cards. It's good to know that you can get about 30mins of PR422 on a 64GB CF card on the Mini. Makes sence to offload when you offload the SSD which I would do anyway, but good to know.

Couldn't find the list of approved CF card for the KiPro Mini. Will have a look or fire an email off to AJA.

Thanks

:))
 
http://www.aja.com/pdf/KiProMini_qualifiedCF_cards.pdf


sandisk extreme pro cards finally dropped majorly in price, that's the way to go.

you can pick up the 64 gb cards for as low as 330 dollars now, used to be over triple that a few months ago if memory serves right.
 
Harry Clark said:
Hi Steve,
I have done this a few times for clients and it seems to work great. The firmware update (2.6) for the KiPro matches the clip name etc. and triggers record remotely from the Red or Epic.
I use the Sandisk Extreme Pro CompactFlash 64GB cards.
Approx. 30 minutes at 422 HQ.
Just like Red, AJA does thorough testing for sustained read/write speeds, page in/outs, and lots of other metrics I don't understand. They have a very short list of approved cards. I'm not sure I'd get anything smaller than 64 GB.
The Red CF cards may not work at all; I seem to remember people having no luck trying to repurpose them.
Cheers,
Harry
Click to expand...

Do you deliver to clients with the letterbox crop on all the edges ? How do we get around that?
 
SO I take it the KiPro Mini records 16x9 and any other ratio is just cropped? So if you shoot 2.1:1 ratio, then it puts the black bars at the top and bottom?!?!?!

:))
 
@Steve, that's wrong. The ki-pro and other recorders when working with red footage, scales the entire image down, so there is a picturesque border crop around the entire footage, top, button, left and right rendering the Footage not useable as is. User has to scale footage 5% for it to fit the 1920 x 1080 screen. Supposedly it's a Raster issue coming out of the RED. I noticed it on a recent shoot I did last week, with the latest firmware update from Aja
 
Kalechi Noel said:
@Steve, that's wrong. The ki-pro and other recorders when working with red footage, scales the entire image down, so there is a picturesque border crop around the entire footage, top, button, left and right rendering the Footage not useable as is. User has to scale footage 5% for it to fit the 1920 x 1080 screen. Supposedly it's a Raster issue coming out of the RED. I noticed it on a recent shoot I did last week, with the latest firmware update from Aja
Click to expand...

Thanks Kalechi

I'm going to be doing some resting prior to any order to see how it works within the workflow. But always good to have a heads up.

:))
 
Kalechi Noel said:
@Steve, that's wrong. The ki-pro and other recorders when working with red footage, scales the entire image down, so there is a picturesque border crop around the entire footage, top, button, left and right rendering the Footage not useable as is. User has to scale footage 5% for it to fit the 1920 x 1080 screen. Supposedly it's a Raster issue coming out of the RED. I noticed it on a recent shoot I did last week, with the latest firmware update from Aja
Click to expand...

This is not accurate.
KiPro is an HD Recorder, it records a 1920 X 1080 signal which is a 1.78:1 ratio. 16:9 is also 1.78
Epic outputs via HDSDI a 1080 signal only (actually 720 is coming soon)
The KiPro Mini is not scaling this footage, its recording the signal output from HDSDI
Since the Epic only currently has one true 16:9 format (4KHD) that would be the only format currently available that is full raster/full 16:9 with no letterbox. Unfortunately, Epic's 4K HD output is not CURRENTLY full raster so when recorded, or even just displayed on a monitor it has a black border on all 4 sides. Obviously this is not good.

All the other Epic formats currently available are not 16:9 so they will be letterboxes top/bottom as they would on any other device.

What we need is for Epic to output full raster 4KHD, which should be coming soon. Better yet a 5K HD format would be ideal.
 
Steve Johnson said:
SO I take it the KiPro Mini records 16x9 and any other ratio is just cropped? So if you shoot 2.1:1 ratio, then it puts the black bars at the top and bottom?!?!?!

:))
Click to expand...

No its not cropped, its letterboxed exactly like it is on the monitor. Its impossible to fit a 2:1 image into a 1920X1080 container without a letterbox.
The KiPro Mini records the HDSDI output of the Epic, so if your project is 2:1 then you will have a letterboxed image, which is normal.
 
Johnny Friday said:
then as previously mentioned...just scale the image in your NLE....simple and easy....in fact PPro will do it for you when you check "scale image" and drop on a 16:9 timeline or you can do it manually.
Click to expand...

Yes, and you are better off setting up the Epic 5KFF, as this requires less than half of the scaling as opposed to shooting 4KHD
 
Sorry, I've been out all day. Greg is correct. I have done this several times with my Red MX (16x9 720) and only once with my Epic (bizarre-o 1.9:1) and yes, there were black bars.
No problem though. It was merely for offline; they were re-transferring the selects for the finished commercial (just like when we shoot film) so the frame issue was not a problem in that case.
But yes, currently if you are hoping for a finish from the KiPro you are in trouble unless you choose 4KHD.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Harry Clark said:
Sorry, I've been out all day. Greg is correct. I have done this several times with my Red MX (16x9 720) and only once with my Epic (bizarre-o 1.9:1) and yes, there were black bars.
No problem though. It was merely for offline; they were re-transferring the selects for the finished commercial (just like when we shoot film) so the frame issue was not a problem in that case.
But yes, currently if you are hoping for a finish from the KiPro you are in trouble unless you choose 4KHD.
Cheers,
Harry
Click to expand...

Does 4k HD give you a full raster 1080p out of HDMI or HDSDI?
 
Harry Clark said:
Sorry, I've been out all day. Greg is correct. I have done this several times with my Red MX (16x9 720) and only once with my Epic (bizarre-o 1.9:1) and yes, there were black bars.
No problem though. It was merely for offline; they were re-transferring the selects for the finished commercial (just like when we shoot film) so the frame issue was not a problem in that case.
But yes, currently if you are hoping for a finish from the KiPro you are in trouble unless you choose 4KHD.
Cheers,
Harry
Click to expand...

Nooooo not finishing this way - just potential for a client to do / start a quick offline edit.

:))
 
Have you heard anything from Red saying that full frame (16 x 9) clean feed is in the works? Hoping so.
 
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