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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Upset about not having the fixed 2/3" Scarlet??

Yeah, count me in the minority whose Scarlet-colored dreams (I've had RED's NAB brochure announcing the "3K for $3K" Scarlet sitting on my desk since 2008) aren't exactly fulfilled by an EPIC-S with a name change and a coat of grey paint. Calling it "Scarlet" merely adds insult to injury. Just because we aren't all here moaning about it doesn't mean there isn't a customer base for a compact, inexpensive, small-format motion capture camera with a decent codec.

That said, I can understand RED's decision. From a business point of view, they standardize their product line, which takes advantage of economies of scale, using speed-binned chips that would otherwise be ground up and recycled, and clarifies and delineates their company image (they're the "4K RAW" guys).

What I can't understand, however, is other REDusers who somehow feel compelled to rub salt into the wounds of any infidel brave enough to say, "Gee, I really kinda wanted that OTHER Scarlet you've been pimping relentlessly for the last three plus years." (You know who you are.)

It's a big, wide production world out here. Please don't assume that everyone who was interested in "Scarlet classic" (RIP) is an impoverished teenager posting buzzed-focus T3i shorts to Vimeo. I think it's safe to assume Kyle, Felix, Robert and the few others brave enough to express their disappointment here (dissenters are banned from REDuser more frequently and with less cause than any other forum I visit) are probably just the tip of a rather large iceberg.
 
LOL ,Relax Kid! No we are not Trolls and do know allot about being filmmakers, just because we are finally free lancing and starting our own production company doesn't mean we don't have experience in the business, we have 6 years of editing experience and we have allot of family members in the business, we know are way around a camera and as such....Wait we have no need for us to explain ourselves to you ...Your just someone that is upset, and as for ppl making fun of us where did that come from? We have made many friends on here, so please stop whining about us and get back to the topics!=)..Oh and please stop speaking for Jim that in itself is disrespectful =) And as for the future comment we meant this camera is now RED's future not the 2/3" geesh!!!
John Nouel said:
Guys are you for real? The way you talk I just think you may be trollers or really excited teenagers.

Sorry but I wanted in the most nicest way to let you know you the way you are talking in the forum comes off as ignorant and people are kinda making fun of you and your reactions.

This have been in a lot of posts but this one made it.

There are professionals in this forum with a lot of experience in the filmmaking industry and for sure really more experience and vision than you two. People who are seriously talking about serious topics and reasons on why a 2/3" camera as a Digital S16 format was a great option.

They are giving understandable (and points on which I agree) arguments and your are answering with no real feedback but "fan boy nonsense". Like "It would have been great to have s16mm format for digital at high frame rates for its great depth of field and as a filmmaking tool" (Because as for today s16mm its a great format and tool, and its roughly the same size of 2/3") and your answer is "COME ON STOP COMPLAINING OMG THIS SCARLET IS THE BEST CAMERA YOU DONT HAVE THE MONEY SO WHATEVER WHY YOU WANT 2/3 THATS THE PAST"

That answers clearly states YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING about what people is talking about.

I'm 22 Years old myself, so don't think I'm patronizing you (And for that matter I've shoot RED, 16mm, 35mm, Z1, EX1, etc in several film shoots as a DP and/or Camera)

To put it to a perspective maybe you guys (who shouldn't be stoned for not knowing or understanding) BLACK SWAN a movie you maybe saw, was made on a s16mm format, just like 2/3". So when you say WELCOME THE FUTURE ACCEPT IT GUYS, you are coming of as ignorant because you don't understand that its not like in the future "everyone will just shoot s35", no, those are just different tools for a way of telling a story.

Again, you shouldn't be stoned for not having the knowledge, but the way you guys come of is just childish. Can't you see this? Try to read more and learn before having this weird replies.

I think I may just wasted my time and you two are some kind of trollers having fun on the other side of the computer.

If not, please take my words as a good hearted advice.

I'm sure Jim would want you two to learn and have a greater criteria than being a blind fanboy that accepts anything put in front of them. Because with no doubt Jim is a great visionary person.

P.D. Everything said here is true. I could agree more and I'm so happy that my feellings have a backup.

The idea of a Digital Cinema S16 was amazing. Having shoot many formats, S16 easy great DOF was the main esthetic I wanted for my film. When I saw that test Jarred made I would say to my friends "Look how pretty, not that awful craze of shallow DOF, but everything from front to the back in focus, thats what I want". It makes for harder direction, thinking better the lenses, positions, objects, and It was I challenge that I knew would make the film even better.

Great DOF as a tool and present in great movies have been discussed (David Mullen for example) on the forum several times. And for no little reason.

Scarlet X seems like a great camera. Maybe I can find the way to buy it (I was expecting 12k for the Fixed). But now I've come to the (incredible turnaround on my plans for the film I'm trying to shoot) That maybe I can spend some 6k on Vision 2 16mm to get the kind of aesthetics I want for my film. Because I don't see a real greater option in the digital world in this format.

(Yes, I can buy the Scarlet X, or rent it, or rent a RED ONE, and stop down to have everything in focus and still do it. I know. That's not really the point we are making here aren't we?)

RED, I believe in you. I just think this was a bitter pill for everyone (Including Jim), and we need to let it out.
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I would buy a Fixed Scarlet even with a flaw on the lens...I cant afford Scarlet X, I wish I could, but I cant..not all have wages like in US..in my country we earn 250 euro (everage wage)

I Love Red though...
 
John Nouel said:
Guys are you for real? The way you talk I just think you may be trollers or really excited teenagers.

Sorry but I wanted in the most nicest way to let you know you the way you are talking in the forum comes off as ignorant and people are kinda making fun of you and your reactions.

This have been in a lot of posts but this one made it.

There are professionals in this forum with a lot of experience in the filmmaking industry and for sure really more experience and vision than you two. People who are seriously talking about serious topics and reasons on why a 2/3" camera as a Digital S16 format was a great option.

They are giving understandable (and points on which I agree) arguments and your are answering with no real feedback but "fan boy nonsense". Like "It would have been great to have s16mm format for digital at high frame rates for its great depth of field and as a filmmaking tool" (Because as for today s16mm its a great format and tool, and its roughly the same size of 2/3") and your answer is "COME ON STOP COMPLAINING OMG THIS SCARLET IS THE BEST CAMERA YOU DONT HAVE THE MONEY SO WHATEVER WHY YOU WANT 2/3 THATS THE PAST"

That answers clearly states YOU UNDERSTAND NOTHING about what people is talking about.

I'm 22 Years old myself, so don't think I'm patronizing you (And for that matter I've shoot RED, 16mm, 35mm, Z1, EX1, etc in several film shoots as a DP and/or Camera)

To put it to a perspective maybe you guys (who shouldn't be stoned for not knowing or understanding) BLACK SWAN a movie you maybe saw, was made on a s16mm format, just like 2/3". So when you say WELCOME THE FUTURE ACCEPT IT GUYS, you are coming of as ignorant because you don't understand that its not like in the future "everyone will just shoot s35", no, those are just different tools for a way of telling a story.

Again, you shouldn't be stoned for not having the knowledge, but the way you guys come of is just childish. Can't you see this? Try to read more and learn before having this weird replies.

I think I may just wasted my time and you two are some kind of trollers having fun on the other side of the computer.

If not, please take my words as a good hearted advice.

I'm sure Jim would want you two to learn and have a greater criteria than being a blind fanboy that accepts anything put in front of them. Because with no doubt Jim is a great visionary person.

P.D. Everything said here is true. I could agree more and I'm so happy that my feellings have a backup.

The idea of a Digital Cinema S16 was amazing. Having shoot many formats, S16 easy great DOF was the main esthetic I wanted for my film. When I saw that test Jarred made I would say to my friends "Look how pretty, not that awful craze of shallow DOF, but everything from front to the back in focus, thats what I want". It makes for harder direction, thinking better the lenses, positions, objects, and It was I challenge that I knew would make the film even better.

Great DOF as a tool and present in great movies have been discussed (David Mullen for example) on the forum several times. And for no little reason.

Scarlet X seems like a great camera. Maybe I can find the way to buy it (I was expecting 12k for the Fixed). But now I've come to the (incredible turnaround on my plans for the film I'm trying to shoot) That maybe I can spend some 6k on Vision 2 16mm to get the kind of aesthetics I want for my film. Because I don't see a real greater option in the digital world in this format.

(Yes, I can buy the Scarlet X, or rent it, or rent a RED ONE, and stop down to have everything in focus and still do it. I know. That's not really the point we are making here aren't we?)

RED, I believe in you. I just think this was a bitter pill for everyone (Including Jim), and we need to let it out.
Click to expand...

Hey John, Ruben and Sheri contribute a ton to the RED community and are held in high regard and widely respected for their positive energy and enthusiasm. Your petulant post belongs more on YouTube than REDUser. Go to your room until you have something nice to say.
 
Thank u sir!!!
Josh Beadle said:
Hey John, Ruben and Sheri contribute a ton to the RED community and are held in high regard and widely respected for their positive energy and enthusiasm. Your petulant post belongs more on YouTube than REDUser. Go to your room until you have something nice to say.
Click to expand...
 
Hooray for positive people.....it seems we need more of them on this forum. (certainly this weekend anyway) Rueben & Sheri no apologies for being young & starting a business & being super enthusiastic, like a lot of newer members on this forum. Keep it up!
 
Everyone is joking, right? I actually completely agree with John. Reuben and Sheri may be bring "positive energy" to Reduser, but frankly ignoring any and all grammatical rules to end up with a post that barks at people that their opinion is the only correct one, and that all decisions that Red makes are the best for everyone is a bit ridiculous. I mean no disrespect to you, Josh, but consider your and Ruben and Sheri's join date. (I don't mean to say that join date is everything, as it's certainly quite possible that both you and Reuben and Sheri were long-time lurkers, as I once was.) It's exceedingly difficult for anyone to be "widely respected" and "held in high regard" after only 1-2 months of joining a community. Compare the content of their posts and the contribution they have made to the Reduser community to other members who most Redusers would agree have a respected and highly regarded status, like David Mullen or Ketch Rossi; you'll find that there is an extreme difference.

I may have very few posts to my name (especially considering that I joined back in 2008), but I've read tens of thousands of other user's posts. For the past several years, the tone, function, and composure of the forum have remained relatively consistent. Since the whole Scarlet rush on Reduser started around June, it's changed quite a bit in that there's less actual information and more speculation, but by far most Redusers have been maintaining the relaxed professional atmosphere of this forum. While I applaud Reuben and Sheri's enthusiasm, I found none of the information in any of the 16 threads they started contributed positively to Reduser. Moreover, 14 of their 16 threads were started in the Scarlet section and obscured the threads by other users who were actually capable of using the "search" function yet still needed information, or had information to provide.

Just to remind everyone: Reduser is a forum. It would be useless if everything posted in it is all positive all the time, and attacks anything negative. Everyone is entitled to voice their own opinions, but consistently antagonizing people whose opinion differs from their own is not okay. When Redusers have a disagreement, they deal with it rationally, using real words and not exclamatory baseless statements typed in all caps with seven exclamation marks.

This isn't a post hating on Reuben and Sheri, or young filmmakers, or people who would love a Red but can't afford one being a part of the Reduser community. I think it's wonderful to have a community that is so welcoming. I appreciated it when I first joined in 2008 at the ripe old age of 17. Could I afford anything made by Red? No. Was I the world's best cinematographer? No. Did I have any camera at all? No.

But in those 3 years, I made it my priority to one day own a Scarlet. I fell in love with the 2/3" sensor and 3k at 120fps (even after initially hating it and secretly wanting a S35 Scarlet), and I was severely disappointed by my dream Scarlet's apparent absence from the Red roadmap. That being said, I am absolutely thrilled with just about every aspect of the Scarlet-X and placed an order as soon as the server would let me through. It's a bit more than I can actually afford at the moment, considering that I was hoping that $12k would get me a full shootable Fixed-Scarlet kit, but I ordered it anyway. Why? Because I strongly believe that the demand for Scarlet-X rentals will be quite high. I never considered the possibility of renting out my Fixed Scarlet since I figured Red One rentals were so cheap and S35 would be the preferred format for most shoots. But now, the Scarlet-X makes renting it out not only a possibility, but an opportunity for the camera to pay for itself and then some when I don't have anything to shoot.

As for not having a 2/3" sensor and fixed lens anymore, I was still pretty disappointed. S35 means I need a focus puller since no fixed lens meant no autofocus and a very shallow DOF. Then I realized that 3k windowed on the Scarlet-X is about the same as S16 and 2/3" size, and allows me to get the same FOV and DOF while also affording me all of the benefits of S35. For me, it's a win-win. The only downside I forsee is that I'll have to get some expensive super wide lenses which will probably vignette while in full-frame, but will work beautifully in 3k. So there ya go.
 
Josh, clearly you missed a paragraph in my post.

Alexander Waldman said:
Just to remind everyone: Reduser is a forum. It would be useless if everything posted in it is all positive all the time, and attacks anything negative. Everyone is entitled to voice their own opinions, but consistently antagonizing people whose opinion differs from their own is not okay. When Redusers have a disagreement, they deal with it rationally, using real words and not exclamatory baseless statements typed in all caps with seven exclamation marks.
Click to expand...
 
Jannard said:
We knew that we couldn't please everyone. Wish we could, but no way to do that. So we did the best we could.

Jim
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And what you did is the smartest business plan as well as amazingly generous to the community.

There are plenty of prosumer options out there for those who were hoping for 3K for 1080p finish.

The future (and realistic present) is 4K. To have it within reach at under $10K is phenomenal. Unfortunately for those who just love RED and what it stands for, I think the days of 3K and RED are over.
 
Casey Green said:
The future (and realistic present) is 4K. To have it within reach at under $10K is phenomenal. Unfortunately for those who just love RED and what it stands for, I think the days of 3K and RED are over.
Click to expand...

Have the specs and price changed since Nov 3 ? I thought 4K shooting gives a 3.2K finish and is the Scarlet able to be shooting out of the box for under $10k?....I'm pretty sure you have you facts wrong
 
Dude really Just because we chose to type a certain way you think are post are nonsense really your so shallow that you attack our grammer?Wow you seem really negative about us too I wonder why, we have done nothing to no one? and join date has nothing to do with how ppl view you so sorry that we dont meet up to you expectation but you can't please everyone =)
Alexander Waldman said:
Everyone is joking, right? I actually completely agree with John. Reuben and Sheri may be bring "positive energy" to Reduser, but frankly ignoring any and all grammatical rules to end up with a post that barks at people that their opinion is the only correct one, and that all decisions that Red makes are the best for everyone is a bit ridiculous. I mean no disrespect to you, Josh, but consider your and Ruben and Sheri's join date. (I don't mean to say that join date is everything, as it's certainly quite possible that both you and Reuben and Sheri were long-time lurkers, as I once was.) It's exceedingly difficult for anyone to be "widely respected" and "held in high regard" after only 1-2 months of joining a community. Compare the content of their posts and the contribution they have made to the Reduser community to other members who most Redusers would agree have a respected and highly regarded status, like David Mullen or Ketch Rossi; you'll find that there is an extreme difference.

I may have very few posts to my name (especially considering that I joined back in 2008), but I've read tens of thousands of other user's posts. For the past several years, the tone, function, and composure of the forum have remained relatively consistent. Since the whole Scarlet rush on Reduser started around June, it's changed quite a bit in that there's less actual information and more speculation, but by far most Redusers have been maintaining the relaxed professional atmosphere of this forum. While I applaud Reuben and Sheri's enthusiasm, I found none of the information in any of the 16 threads they started contributed positively to Reduser. Moreover, 14 of their 16 threads were started in the Scarlet section and obscured the threads by other users who were actually capable of using the "search" function yet still needed information, or had information to provide.

Just to remind everyone: Reduser is a forum. It would be useless if everything posted in it is all positive all the time, and attacks anything negative. Everyone is entitled to voice their own opinions, but consistently antagonizing people whose opinion differs from their own is not okay. When Redusers have a disagreement, they deal with it rationally, using real words and not exclamatory baseless statements typed in all caps with seven exclamation marks.

This isn't a post hating on Reuben and Sheri, or young filmmakers, or people who would love a Red but can't afford one being a part of the Reduser community. I think it's wonderful to have a community that is so welcoming. I appreciated it when I first joined in 2008 at the ripe old age of 17. Could I afford anything made by Red? No. Was I the world's best cinematographer? No. Did I have any camera at all? No.

But in those 3 years, I made it my priority to one day own a Scarlet. I fell in love with the 2/3" sensor and 3k at 120fps (even after initially hating it and secretly wanting a S35 Scarlet), and I was severely disappointed by my dream Scarlet's apparent absence from the Red roadmap. That being said, I am absolutely thrilled with just about every aspect of the Scarlet-X and placed an order as soon as the server would let me through. It's a bit more than I can actually afford at the moment, considering that I was hoping that $12k would get me a full shootable Fixed-Scarlet kit, but I ordered it anyway. Why? Because I strongly believe that the demand for Scarlet-X rentals will be quite high. I never considered the possibility of renting out my Fixed Scarlet since I figured Red One rentals were so cheap and S35 would be the preferred format for most shoots. But now, the Scarlet-X makes renting it out not only a possibility, but an opportunity for the camera to pay for itself and then some when I don't have anything to shoot.

As for not having a 2/3" sensor and fixed lens anymore, I was still pretty disappointed. S35 means I need a focus puller since no fixed lens meant no autofocus and a very shallow DOF. Then I realized that 3k windowed on the Scarlet-X is about the same as S16 and 2/3" size, and allows me to get the same FOV and DOF while also affording me all of the benefits of S35. For me, it's a win-win. The only downside I forsee is that I'll have to get some expensive super wide lenses which will probably vignette while in full-frame, but will work beautifully in 3k. So there ya go.
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