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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Upset about not having the fixed 2/3" Scarlet??

KETCH ROSSi said:
I don't know and don't even pretend to think I know, how much Jim is sad and or even PISSED about having to scratch it off the table after years of R&D, lots of money and man power spent...

But I sure can tell you that for what I know Jim... SCRAPPING FIX SCARLET MUST HAVE BEEN INSANELY PAINFUL TO SWALLOW... Take my word on this...
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It woulda been really, really cool if he'd related this to us and said, "But Epic-S will hopefully make the bitter pill a little easier for everyone to swallow." Instead we got a sales pitch on how that outdated bad idea that wasn't future-proof has finally been put out to pasture and now we're all going to be treated to a hobbled Epic at a bargain-basement price. I mean, I know how sales and PR goes. You can't ever admit defeat. I'm surprised TEPCO hasn't issued statements about the Fukushima Daiichi tragedy being an "Excellent tool for evaluating the backup systems of our state-of-the-art facility!" I mean, I get it. It just would have been a lot cooler if we'd been given the straight dope instead of a sales pitch for the renamed Epic-S. But yeah, it had to suck for everyone involved. The last 24 hours have felt like Netflix's big announcement last month. "You're gonna love this!" Uh...
 
I'm with you Robert. I think nobody here thinks that it was easy for Jim (or that he is a bad person). In the last 12 months I had sometimes the feeling he doesn't really like talking about the fixed Scarlet. Most of it came from Jarred or Ted. Probably because he was frustrated it didn't work out the way he hoped.
I also understand that he had to hype the new Scarlet agressively and openly against the "competition" from canon. But if he knew he is not gonna do the Fixed Scarlet, if he even talks about the "bad news" 2 days before the alleged release... I mean, I dunno. I think highly of Jim but that was thoughtless and doesn't fit what I expected from him or RED.

BTW: I don't really get that "Look, why do you complain, we have a much better camera now."
Scarlet X is something RED always said they would do. It should only have come after fixed Scarlet as stated few months ago. It was never INSTEAD of the Fixed Scarlet. Now it is.
 
Radoslav Karapetkov said:
Too bad the 2/3'" models are out of the picture. I wonder if there's any hope left or this is really the end?
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'Everything changes'. Jim made the point that he means it when he says that.

So for now, everything has changed.

Of course this ALSO means never say "never" - maybe Scarlet 2/3" (Fixed or otherwise) will come back from the dead. But I wouldn't bet so much as a brass washer on the possibility.

Mike
 
Canon is still coming out with 4k DSLR's and other company's have other options so don't feel cheated by RED, there are allot of other options out there! For us we will continue to save and buy the awesomeness that is Scarlet X..... 2/3" is the past and now we get to own a baby epic that is just WOW!!!!
 
I was so upset they scraped the 2/3s fixed... that I had to buy a Scarlet-X.
Retail therapy at its finest.
 
Dude if you could afford 6k then just put that aside and save up the rest. We don't understand this problem? it's not out of reach just save more...
Leonidas Forteza said:
I always wanted to shoot a great feature is always been one of my greatest dream which I'm sure my dream is also share by millions if not billions around the world. with a very small budget of course, I needed a great camera at a great price! but the usual low budget choices were always (Panasonic, Sony, Jvc, canon, etc) I always found myself searching(for years) the www. here and there and always end up not getting anything because there was always something wrong or missing in these cameras (companies driven by MONETARY gain adding features here and there little by little so for and so on) (so back to the old nothing just wishing to hit the lotto or something so I can make myself the perfect camera, frustration got in and hopes got out) to make a long story short. then on my infinite search in this dark world I live in for the right camera I suddenly saw a light! I came across Jim's great scarlet (my heroic camera maker) they called themselves RED i told this to everyone I came across since 2007 doing exactly what I wish I could do (making the perfect cinema camera at a price anyone could actually afford) his got the money and the best part above all, his got the passion, yes PASSION I couldn't ask for more, a company which makes cinema cameras driven by passion, Oh Excellent! I just can't wait to get my hands on scarlet, wow I wonder the power of RED SCARLET on everyone's hand, people like me who don't even have a bank account because money it's always short but actually be able to think I could get my hands on this amazing 3k camera, I started dreaming and dreaming big just thought get ready for true cinema revolution I could see great deal of choices for the future as far as movies, shows, commercial, etc. choices to see the other side of the coin not only the big dog's. See the perspective of people with great talent from all over the glove having the perfect tool at a price that will allow them to truly show their skills at a level never done or seen before. That to me was powerful! this was revolution!

Yesterday 11-03-2011 9:00pm was supposed to be one of the happiest day of my life, finitely all I have talked about for years was to become true, now I guess I talked too much! I must it be out of mind mind! I broke into tears as I saw all go down hill , what happened? what happened with 3k scarlet heck even 6k scarlet I could have done that even if it meant I had to put on my gasoline boots and go trough hell and come back with that money but now double that amount it's just not thinkable for me and for many, many others I'm sure, if this is the cost of knowing what you are doing in my case I would rather have the innocent part of it, I prefer when you didn't know as much, doing 3k for 3k hey even with a bit more knowledge 3k for 6k. Now what? (so back to the old nothing just wishing to hit the lotto or something so I can affort to buy the perfect camera, (which is EPIC of course) frustration it's now back and hopes are just that, hopes) Sorry that's my frustration writing I had to let it go some how.

Never the less I do like to thank and congratulate Jim and the RED team for been brave enough to even try and share some light for those left in the dark, you have done great I never doubt it you for an instant I guess I just have to wait for another boat. Sail on RED! Sail on!

I'm just sad to know I'll be missing the fun again!
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Radoslav Karapetkov said:
Hold on. :biggrin5:
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Yeah, I can see it being one of the "Surprise" products on the road map. "Surprise! A 4K 2/3" Scarlet! Now THIS is future-proof!!!" And suddenly there are thousands of teenage Red enthusiasts going, "You know, I always said 2/3" was a professional format..just not at 3K!" Heh...
 
Robert Jackson said:
It woulda been really, really cool if he'd related this to us and said, "But Epic-S will hopefully make the bitter pill a little easier for everyone to swallow." Instead we got a sales pitch on how that outdated bad idea that wasn't future-proof has finally been put out to pasture and now we're all going to be treated to a hobbled Epic at a bargain-basement price. I mean, I know how sales and PR goes. You can't ever admit defeat. I'm surprised TEPCO hasn't issued statements about the Fukushima Daiichi tragedy being an "Excellent tool for evaluating the backup systems of our state-of-the-art facility!" I mean, I get it. It just would have been a lot cooler if we'd been given the straight dope instead of a sales pitch for the renamed Epic-S. But yeah, it had to suck for everyone involved. The last 24 hours have felt like Netflix's big announcement last month. "You're gonna love this!" Uh...
Click to expand...

Felix K. said:
I'm with you Robert. I think nobody here thinks that it was easy for Jim (or that he is a bad person). In the last 12 months I had sometimes the feeling he doesn't really like talking about the fixed Scarlet. Most of it came from Jarred or Ted. Probably because he was frustrated it didn't work out the way he hoped.
I also understand that he had to hype the new Scarlet agressively and openly against the "competition" from canon. But if he knew he is not gonna do the Fixed Scarlet, if he even talks about the "bad news" 2 days before the alleged release... I mean, I dunno. I think highly of Jim but that was thoughtless and doesn't fit what I expected from him or RED.

BTW: I don't really get that "Look, why do you complain, we have a much better camera now."
Scarlet X is something RED always said they would do. It should only have come after fixed Scarlet as stated few months ago. It was never INSTEAD of the Fixed Scarlet. Now it is.
Click to expand...

Owen Crowley said:
"Everything…changes" comes across as disingenuous when an insider knows about a material change but continues to lead on his potential customer base. The disappointment for the Scarlet 2/3 fixed community is an opportunity for Red's competition in three ways:

(1) Red has signaled that it is not interested in the ENG community;
(2) People will be less willing to believe in and wait for Red products in development; and
(3) The first competitor (if any) to wake up and present an entry level raw camera will win the loyalty of future pro filmmakers.

That Scarlet X leads in its category is true, but it is also true that it shifted categories away from what many had hoped based on the hype.
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Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig said:
You didn't get the point here. Some people don't want to work with a S35 sensor.

They're looking for a non bulky cam, with smaller lenses & with a large DOF. They also don't want to cope with TB of data to record & store when they're shooting. But they also want the quality of RED cameras, with that fantastic REDCODE in RAW format.
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+++++++

Everything can and should change... but within reason. Everyone, including myself, holding out for the Scarlet 2/3" Fixed or Interchangeable have been baited so badly for 3 years.

It was never about the price; it was, however, the reasonable assumption that we could expect the Fixed Scarlet or a facsimile. Instead the Epic-S/Scarlet S35 was propped up and we're supposed to cheer? It was part of the original RED road map...
 
I think the problem here is, this anouncement has dissapointed a lot of people. As humans, when we're dissapointed we need to blame someone or something and the easiest person to blame here is RED. Even though its not their fault. Truth is, its nobodys fault. Everything in life does change and thats whats happened with Scarlet.

I've been following the forum for 3-4 years now, my budget sits at 6K. I was ready and excited for 3k for 3k. Bu then RED anounced HDRx at a 2k price increase, which actualy excited me because I could still afford it and I believed it worth the extra cost. Since then RED made the wise choice to keep the rest of their changes quiet to stop the compeitition. So now here I am 4 yeras later, Scarlet has finally been anounced and I can't buy it. I'm totaly gutted. I've spent a lot of my time on this website keeping up to date to find out about my future camera. I even told all my friends and family about how I can't wait to get one. But I can't.

So who do I blame? No one.

Dont waste your time blaming RED. Now's the time for you to find a way to make enough money to afford the NEW Scarlet.



Jono
 
While waiting for the NEW Fixed Scarlet I am going to hold my breath until I turn... uh... RED.
 
Eric Lange said:
Limited budget is relative…

We couldn’t afford a slew of EPIC Ms etc. to perform the tests we needed. So originally we needed to look at ways we could simulate EPIC to produce the results we needed for special technical systems HW and SW we are developing (this is largely self funded BTW). Now we don’t need to simulate EPIC! So With Scarlet this has cut 100(s) of thousands of dollars on what we would have had to spend just to get to point that we can fully demonstrate our true capabilities and has probably cut 18 months two years of incremental development (Mainly advanced S-3d/VR/CG capabilities). For us the bleeding edge is software development (which is very expensive as it is) and to add significant expense by using full blown EPICs is very tough for any smaller private outfit that requires special modifications and engineering; i.e. rental is not such an option.

All I can say is the Scarlet HAS exceeded my wildest dreams…because we could not afford to do what we really needed to do with EPICs. So in that sense our “bacon” has been saved to a mind blowing degree.

BUT I have to say originally Scarlet was not even on my RADAR, and it seems the ground has shifted substantially so that we can perform perfect simulation of an EPIC based system, but obviously this is not what a lot of people originally had in mind.

At this moment I really want to take my hat off to Terry VerHaarr (I hope I spelt that right). He absolutely stuck to his guns and had argued the case VERY sensibly and very perfectly to my mind so well in fact that he totally turned my thinking from even daring to hope for 4k, 5k at lower fps, this and that of whatever size down to a 2/3” 3k device. So thanks to Terry come the announcement I was blown away to a degree that is hard to fathom… as what is offered is beyond what I could have ever have hoped for… and this really is the most amazing leg up we have ever been given.

R&D to product/capability is a very hungry little monster that eats bails cash on a daily basis and you really have to keep your nerve. Meanwhile you are trying to crack very difficult problems and secure your IP. So it’s an absolute uphill blood bath ALL the way but for a small group we have accomplished a hell of lot (I think). All I can say is that whatever these guys are smoking at RED has given us an unbelievable life line, and that’s a fact. Truly beyond my wildest dreams, I’m expecting someone to throw a cold bucket of water over my head and they shout “Wake Up” … And I discover that it was all a dream.. and that Scarlet IS 2/3” 3k etc etc. Never once did we have an “easy” button to push. As corny and haggard as this might sound but for us “the future is now!”.

It’s all relative.

Best to You ALL,

Eric

And thank you RED (understatement)...
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Eric, if you have a system that will require customers to use many epics in future, then maybe you could ask Red if they could lend or sell you cameras at cost price.
 
OK, I guess people that could afford X, or had no need for 2/3rds fixed, are happy, but 2/3 rds was never really intended for them anyway, so their comments don't really count much.

I notice 2/3rds is now regarded as not professional enough, I'm glad they now agree with me, consumer cameras are probably going to hit that eventually.

To put things in perspective s35 starts at $599 in a size that can fit in a pocket, and lens options in the hundreds of dollars, with a few adjustments it will record uncompressed raw (hardrive might be bulky). So a s35 raw camera for $5k is not out of the question, and even a s35 fixed with short lens either. The cinema world is too self absorbed and self revolving, s35 has to be built like a truck and s35 lens like a prime mover, it does not, and the audience, after processing, will hardly notice the difference. As a designer and somebody that cares about the majority of people this stuff makes me sick. We are getting to the stage that all you need is cameras with four small 1/3 inch sensors with mobile like lens to make a feature cleaned up through a computer in post, that fits in your pocket for $100, that is revolutionary the rest is redevelopment, people don't know what they are talking about or respect true knowledge (apu).
 
I probably shouldn't even be responding to this thread; in fact, I should be out making a decision on Plan B...

But that's what makes this so heartbreaking... the fact that many are being forced to consider and execute their Plan B. We LOVE Red. We love everything they stand for, and everything that Red represents. We've waited and waited and waited, hoping that we could join part of the team; be part of the family.

But, as Jim would probably say...business is business. And as much as it must have pained Jim and crew to make the tough decision regarding Scarlet Fixed, it pains many of us that we have to make the tough decision and go somewhere else...

Where will we go? ( I feel a Fiddler-on-the-Roof scene coming on) That's the saddest, most ironic part. Many of us are still in limbo, with no company out there really catering to some of the things our market is clamoring for.

The most difficult thing to understand sometimes is how the term "professional" is interpreted. It's a little disheartening to hear words expressed that seem to indicate that anyone not involved or working on large-scale, cinematic, theatrical projects are somehow not part of that professional community. How many thousands upon thousands of those working in the broadcast, corporate, and yes, even wedding/bar mitzvah/quinceanera industries have put food on the table of their families, and have helped entertained, inspired, motivated, and moved the viewing audiences all over the world?

Yes, the FUTURE may require 4k/film replacement quality, but right now, in today's world, there are many working professionals that would be ecstatic to have just enough to meet their needs and put food on the table. And that fact that we already have the technology to do crazy amazing things, like 5K @ 120fps, makes it even more heartbreaking that we aren't even offered that in a lower resolution yet. 3k 120fps was one of those huge specs that was just mouth watering. Seriously, I'd even be super stoked at just 1080p at 120fps. The other big thing that pulls me to Red is the DSMC concept and truly having one device to rule them all.

It's weird because in all the talk about lowering expectations and what not, there seems to be a huge portion of people who actually would be totally happy with lower feature specs in favor of some more affordability.

Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked here, but point is this... We're all in awe about what Red has been able to accomplish in such a short amount of time. We're all on awe of the boundaries that Red is shattering. We're so happy for Red in seeing their hard work and sweat and tears paying off and seeing them succeed.

We're just so bummed that we will have seek refuge somewhere else. Not because we want to, but because business is business, and we have to make a decision to move on and try and make a living however best we can.

Upset? Absolutely not. Dissappointed, saddened. Yes.

Perhaps a rendition of "Anatevka", but substituting it with red/scarlet references, would be in order right now :)

Oh well, maybe the promised land will be in sight in another year's time or so...
 
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