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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Upset about not having the fixed 2/3" Scarlet??

Jannard said:
We knew that we couldn't please everyone. Wish we could, but no way to do that. So we did the best we could.

Jim
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Congratulations on a successful release Jim. It's a very impressive camera.

I am wondering whether there are any plans for a 2/3rds camera with higher frame rates? This announcement has me searching for an alternative camera. I would much rather be a red customer. I was certain that you would release 2 cameras, the one you announced and a 2/3rds high frame rate cam...
 
Phil Holland said:
Right now within the $12k-$20k market nothing touches what Scarlet can do.
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I think scarlet is pretty on par with sony's F3.
F3 doesn't have raw, but it has wider options for lenses.

Zoom for scarlet right now could be EF-S 18-200 (600 g) or EF 28-300mm (1.7 kg) , $700 or $2700...

Scarlet is now somewhere in $20k ballpark if we think about the whole eng/event/doc/indie shortie package.
I hope there will be $10k package (FS100 competitor) at some point in near future.

Canon, Sony and Panasonic are still holding features from cheaper models to protect higher models,
I hope Red will never do that?...

EDIT: Comparing still capabilities isn't so relevant or is it? 3 year old 5d2 beats scarlet and you can buy one for about $1k...

EDIT2: Holy shit, just looked at dpreview and Canon unveiled C300 and will make 4k video camera!
 
Jim Jannard said "We knew that we couldn't please everyone. Wish we could, but no way to do that. So we did the best we could."

Which is understandable, but your fallback position was to grab existing sensors instead of engineering a 4K 2/3" sensor, which is also understandable, but unfortunate. That also ended the Compact Prime program which a lot of us who have shot a lot of 16mm over the course of our careers were really looking forward to using. Again, I understand the problems inherent with engineering multiple lines of products, but it is kind of a disappointment for those of us who were looking for a "digital 16mm" option. It kind of leaves us with the Ikonoskop and 1080p if we want RAW capture.
 
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upset?
that's not the fukin word my friends, waiting for three years and get 1080 60p?

can't even paint it black, now setup will look like a patchwork blanket,

great job red!
 
I love the improvements. Although it costs allot more then i would have liked and doesn't have some of the features I was looking for like slow motion, it can't be matched for price so it's was still a great investment.

Although I really hope that 120fps or even 100fps gets enabled at 2K. I don't want to shoot sub HD.
 
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Jannard said:
Apparently most people are happy... it is the ones on a limited budget that aren't. I understand that. I wish we could satisfy everyone, but that simply is not the case. For those on a limited budget, there are lots of great options. But 4K is not one of them.

I have been clear from the beginning that "everything changes". I meant it.

Jim
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You did a fantastic job Jim. You lured me in with the fixed 2/3, and the camera evolved into the very thing I wanted it too. Thank you for the hard work and all the passion. I'm looking forward to getting my Scarlet! My wife even made us a special dinner to celebrate the special occasion. It's been a big wait for me for 3 years. And she jumped on to enjoy the ride.

To those that are upset, I completely understand, but RED owes nobody anything. Work harder and save longer. I know, easier said than done, but it's doable. And if it's not...looks like there will be plenty out there in a aggressive rental market.
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
You did a fantastic job Jim. You lured me in with the fixed 2/3, and the camera evolved into the very thing I wanted it too. Thank you for the hard work and all the passion. I'm looking forward to getting my Scarlet! My wife even made us a special dinner to celebrate the special occasion. It's been a big wait for me for 3 years. And she jumped on to enjoy the ride.

To those that are upset, I completely understand, but RED owes nobody anything. Work harder and save longer. I know, easier said than done, but it's doable. And if it's not...looks like there will be plenty out there in a aggressive rental market.
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I would like to personally Congrats You .. I have seen couple of your post in weeks ... When I saw Price & spec ... I know Its perfect for You ..

GOOD LUCK ...

yeah Red doesn't owes Us anything .. But still we are human .. we have feelings :D .. I am bit disappointed but who cares ... I just wanted a 3k/4k res cam for personal use ...

Right now I can focus on my main field 3d animation/ vfx ... Getting into video field was like to get hands on easy way to get hand on Cash
 
Jim and the team did an excellent job. They didn't cave in to pressures to be a supergiant company catering for everyone, and the payoff is that we recognise you as a company who caters passionately and uncompromisingly for the mid-high cinema filmmaker. Arri doesn't make ENG cameras. The RED team looked inside their hearts, and found the contents to say "Do one thing, and do it well." We salute you. Now put up some R3Ds :biggrin5:
 
Steven Veldkamp said:
There's a difference between not being able to satisfy everyone... and telling everyone you're going to release a cheap 3K option for 3-4 years, only to replace it by a higher costing model at the very end.
Even though this model is still miles ahead of the competition, it still kind of feels like a bait-and-switch action.
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I feel pretty much the same way. I've been patiently waiting, ever since the idea of Scarlet was born. And now, the door gets clearly slammed in our face...in 4K.

Jannard said:
Sorry you feel that way. The delays in development exposed the fact that 3K is not future-proof. And we make cameras for professionals. or those that aspire to be professionals. We had a hard time justifying a 3K professional camera. The fact that the 8X fixed zoom had a fatal flaw (couldn't hold focus from wide to tele)... was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Jim
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I'm pretty sure there are many who would be happy with something less than 4K. You wouldn't Jim...that's fine. You've often said that you want to deliver what customers want, so I propose you survey how many would be interested in a more minimal solution -- see if there's a market.
 
The camera is an amazing camera. With that being said. I'm pretty bummed. The Scarlet fixed would have been perfect for my uses. Would have been the most amount of money I have ever spent on a camera but Im a full time videographer and it would have been great for my business. But there's no way now that I can afford a Scarlet package. I live in the mountains of NC and don't have the kind of projects that net me enough money to afford the new Scarlet. Again amazing camera, but for me...the Scarlet dream is unreachable. :embarassed:
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
To those that are upset, I completely understand, but RED owes nobody anything. Work harder and save longer. I know, easier said than done, but it's doable. And if it's not...looks like there will be plenty out there in a aggressive rental market.
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You didn't get the point here. Some people don't want to work with a S35 sensor.

They're looking for a non bulky cam, with smaller lenses & with a large DOF. They also don't want to cope with TB of data to record & store when they're shooting. But they also want the quality of RED cameras, with that fantastic REDCODE in RAW format.
 
Lorenzo Levrini said:
Jim and the team did an excellent job. They didn't cave in to pressures to be a supergiant company catering for everyone, and the payoff is that we recognise you as a company who caters passionately and uncompromisingly for the mid-high cinema filmmaker. Arri doesn't make ENG cameras. The RED team looked inside their hearts, and found the contents to say "Do one thing, and do it well." We salute you. Now put up some R3Ds :biggrin5:
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But ARRI made tons of 16mm cameras, many of which were used for news/nature/doc shooting in their day, which is analogous to what many ENG/EFP shooters do today. Many of these cameras were also used to make fantastic pieces of cinema.

To be honest, I never cared much for the fixed lens Scarlet, since I wanted to use 16mm glass (or RED mini-primes), and quite frankly, a fixed lens camera isn't terribly attractive or professional; you don't want to be stuck with just one lens for all situations, even if it is a very good lens. The 2/3" Interchangeable Scarlet, however, would have been a perfect camera for me, even at Scarlet-X's price point. There would have been absolutely nothing like it on the market, assuming its original specs still held, and it would have been a godsend to filmmakers who wanted to work with the smaller format, or in situations that required a smaller rig. Doc work, nature, experimental filmmaking, EFP, etc. Were it released today (or even in the next year or so), I think it would still be a revolutionary camera.

Scarlet-X looks to be a great camera at a fantastic price point. It clearly blows anything in its price range (and some cameras significantly higher than its price range) out of the water. I can understand people's excitement for it.

However, instead of being an uncompromising digital 16mm replacement, it's a price-and-performance-compromised camera for those who want to shoot S35 but can't afford an Epic. And I think that's what's disappointing to some people here.
 
Jason Murphy said:
But ARRI made tons of 16mm cameras, many of which were used for news/nature/doc shooting in their day, which is analogous to what many ENG/EFP shooters do today. Many of these cameras were also used to make fantastic pieces of cinema.

To be honest, I never cared much for the fixed lens Scarlet, since I wanted to use 16mm glass (or RED mini-primes), and quite frankly, a fixed lens camera isn't terribly attractive or professional; you don't want to be stuck with just one lens for all situations, even if it is a very good lens. The 2/3" Interchangeable Scarlet, however, would have been a perfect camera for me, even at Scarlet-X's price point. There would have been absolutely nothing like it on the market, assuming its original specs still held, and it would have been a godsend to filmmakers who wanted to work with the smaller format, or in situations that required a smaller rig. Doc work, nature, experimental filmmaking, EFP, etc. Were it released today (or even in the next year or so), I think it would still be a revolutionary camera.

Scarlet-X looks to be a great camera at a fantastic price point. It clearly blows anything in its price range (and some cameras significantly higher than its price range) out of the water. I can understand people's excitement for it.

However, instead of being an uncompromising digital 16mm replacement, it's a price-and-performance-compromised camera for those who want to shoot S35 but can't afford an Epic. And I think that's what's disappointing to some people here.
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But am I understanding wrong or is the censor cropped to 16mm size when shooting in 2K with scarlet? Then we can choose to shoot s35 or 16mm, no?
 
Jason Murphy said:
But ARRI made tons of 16mm cameras, many of which were used for news/nature/doc shooting in their day, which is analogous to what many ENG/EFP shooters do today. Many of these cameras were also used to make fantastic pieces of cinema.

To be honest, I never cared much for the fixed lens Scarlet, since I wanted to use 16mm glass (or RED mini-primes), and quite frankly, a fixed lens camera isn't terribly attractive or professional; you don't want to be stuck with just one lens for all situations, even if it is a very good lens. The 2/3" Interchangeable Scarlet, however, would have been a perfect camera for me, even at Scarlet-X's price point. There would have been absolutely nothing like it on the market, assuming its original specs still held, and it would have been a godsend to filmmakers who wanted to work with the smaller format, or in situations that required a smaller rig. Doc work, nature, experimental filmmaking, EFP, etc. Were it released today (or even in the next year or so), I think it would still be a revolutionary camera.

Scarlet-X looks to be a great camera at a fantastic price point. It clearly blows anything in its price range (and some cameras significantly higher than its price range) out of the water. I can understand people's excitement for it.

However, instead of being an uncompromising digital 16mm replacement, it's a price and performance compromised camera for those who want to shoot S35 but can't afford an Epic. And I think that's what's disappointing to some people here.
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This man got it.

Biggest disappointment to take away from this would be that we aren't getting a S16 digital cinema version. The fixed was starting to feel it's age when the market kept changing, but 2/3rds has a significant place in the market! Hell, I'd say upgrade it to true S16 and keep the specs -- I'll buy that in a heartbeat!

Really, I think my only disappointment here is not price/performance/whatever but that EPIC, seemingly the true and worthy successor to film, has been left without it's little sister's heir; S16 simply won't have a great successor anymore... I find that sad. 3K (or Quad HD) would seem perfect for it. It's not 4K, but there aren't any S16 lenses that can resolve 4K, so that isn't a problem. Still, I'd pay my vote for the old interchangeable SCARLET. Hell, I'd even wait another year for it if they bumped up the sensor size to S16 and changed the resolution to QuadHD! But alas, it seems this isn't going to happen...
 
will miss 3k 120fps at a sub-10k price point... but, what they announced is so much more far reaching... really big, bold move... you should see the change in tone on familiar boards that love to hate on red and what they are saying now...

the announcement certainly lived up to all the hype in my opinion... and maybe one day, we'll have that sub-10k 120fps machine. just not there yet. appears RED is closer than anyone to it though...
 
laurent delaroziere said:
But am I understanding wrong or is the censor cropped to 16mm size when shooting in 2K with scarlet? Then we can choose to shoot s35 or 16mm, no?
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Please. Sensor cropping the Scarlet-X would be compromise on top of compromise.

2K resolution at max 60 FPS (Scarlet-X) vs 3K resolution at max 120-150 FPS (2/3" Scarlet, had it been built to spec)? Are you seriously trying to tell me that that's an acceptable solution?
 
Jannard said:
Sorry you feel that way. The delays in development exposed the fact that 3K is not future-proof. And we make cameras for professionals. or those that aspire to be professionals. We had a hard time justifying a 3K professional camera. The fact that the 8X fixed zoom had a fatal flaw (couldn't hold focus from wide to tele)... was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Jim
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Jim, it's me Wayne. Remember years ago the thread in dvinfo where Chris asked for.you anonymously, for suggestions for the ideal cinema camera, or the diy digital cinema thread, I suggested a compromised, basically 3k, low cost camera alongside a full featured shd camera but not threaten it's market? I had posted that as suggestions for the 2006/2007 market, as it would be clear benefit over 1080p with no shd/4k in sight for many 1080p operators. (Interestingly, Sony announced the new tech sensor project several months after that and eventually it was used in the Casio fx1 with 6.?mp 60fps burst). But by the time the Scarlet was announced it was getting late, and I pointed out that 3k had a limited shelf life of clear advantage.

It actually made me abandone my own $1000 directors viewfinder camera design idea I think I discussed with you, aswell as the pocket camera. I agree with people, it would have been good to hear that at least the fixed had been abandoned before, if not the low end professional bracket aswell, as soon as it was decided. This cycle has been playing havoc with my plans around purchasing, and time. I am virtually going to have to buy a Poco credit card camera as a personal camera before my head explodes or something now ;)

The economy and the 3d TV without shd fiasco, not to mention the previouse failure of Nvidia's push, has probably delayed many shd cameras by now.

I agree with your decision in the Scarlet x and dealing with the epic parts. But I think the low end, enthusiasts, internet media, videographers, video journalists, and some TV and eng, represents 40%+ sales, 90% in a good economy, and since the original announcement, and now no fixed, they have left. I think it is still a good market to have, even if you get some other company to cover it (Sigma comes to mind with experience but lacking product). When I started out, I went to just about every bread and butter videographer business around looking for work, and I can tell you, just about all of them operated from home, and often not rich (this is a big city mind you). There were many of them, probably out numbering film, and I think most of these people would like to own and keep a low cost 4k scarlet, or rent. I nearly moved into the second run down flat next to one of the top documentary makers in the State or country, for $60, somebody else that might like s16 4k digital. Fixed has an marlet, I think.

I forget who, but it has been suggested that s16, and myself, is a good compromise format for 4k that a 2/3 lens could be used on it with no worse resolution then 2/3rds 1080p gets, even as a fixed. So, what is next?

I have to ask this, if I wanted to make a camera product using Red sensor, or simple camera head, is that possible?

I was wandering, you might need one of the boys for this, can you mount a 2/3rds lens to the scarlet x through a mount adapter that relays the projected 2/3rds image upto s35 preserving full resolution at quality? In reverse, could a SLR image be cleanly taken down to s35? I was planning on looking into doing this for my old camera. But as it is, a special empty 2/3rds lens insert adaptor would allow many of the 2/3rd crowd to make a run and gun rig with Scarlet x with good res ;)

(have they used Red in Tracey Ullman's State of the Union? It is on at the moment and I often can tell if something looks like it has been shoot on Red).


Thanks Jim

Wayne.
 
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