Upgrading from a beginner video camera to a used Sony F3. Thoughts??

[Dave Osbun]

Let me start by first thanking everyone in advance, for their input on my question. I love reading the threads on this message board, which allows me to learn from all of your experienced, talented individuals!
Since this is a Red website, I hate bringing up cameras from other manufacturers, but I feel that my question might help others that are like myself.

With the fast advancement of today's camera technology, beginner shooters (like myself) can upgrade their 'beginner' equipment when they're ready to do so, by buying a used but still excellent camera at an amazing discount. I have seen the Sony F3 being purchased for under $4000 (with some accessories, even!). Obviously the goal is to one day own a Red!

Granted it's not a 4K camera, but I don't need 4K. Has anyone here owned, or still owns, a Sony F3? What would be your advice on buying a used one?

FYI- my current camera is a Sony NEX-VG10, which I shoot with a Nikon F-NEX adapter (Nikkor AIS lenses) as well as an M42 screw mount adapter for my Super Takumar SMC 50mm 1.4 lens (which I know wouldn't work on an F3).

Many thanks!
Dave

 

[Eric Santiago]

If you have your heart set on the Sony then go for it but there are other options under that price range that gets you to 4K.

At this point in the game as a beginner, you might want to stay with what you have till your ready for the advance cameras.

I jumped into it with my Scarlet purchase with no hesitation.

 

[Sergio Perez]

My advice is that you choose your own "ceiling". the F3 is an excellent camera. But have you asked yourself why it is at the price point it is? Its not because it makes bad pictures- far from it- but because there's no demand for it. I would say personnaly to go for a used Scarlet. Why? Because you will be in the Red Digital Cinema environment. You can rent yourself and your camera to indie film productions, or join some local Red Epic or Dragon productions with top teams and learn how they handle it. Through being in the Red "environment", you'll learn about Raw, about Color Grading, about High Frame Rate shooting, etc.

The Red environment will open doors for you. The Sony F3 is an excelent camera and eill produce wonderful pictures, but it will go only as far in terms of demand. Something to think about. Good luck and hopefully see you soon on a Red camera!

 

[Troy Bakewell]

My advice:

Wait till after NAB.

As great of a deal F3's seem right now, I suspect they will be had for significantly less in a couple months. Same goes for a BT Scarlet.

Honestly, I'd go Scarlet MX over F3. But an F3 at half the price of a Scarlet is a great buy too.

Hell. tough decision. LOL

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

F3 for $4K isn't that great of a deal, IMO. The F3 and F5 are not holding value well and there are a lot of them on the used market at the moment as we lead into NAB. People want to sell now before something newer and better is announced. Even if that something newer and better is 6+ months away from delivery, it will impact sales prices of the gear out there now.

So I echo the advice of waiting until after NAB. Then take your time in deciding what you want. The OP has a NEX-VG10, which is pretty quirky in some ways. If you can shoot that camera, you'll do just fine shooting an F3, F5, RED, F65, Alexa, etc.. That's something I really don't understand about the camera world. It seems that as we move down the camera scale from Pro into Prosumer onward to consumer gear, the cameras actually get more convoluted and more difficult to use. They're cluttered up with all sorts of silly features and crippled interfaces or abilities. OTOH, post-processing seems to work opposite of that. As we move up the scale to more expensive pro cameras, we get into a lot more freedom, ability, large file sizes, etc.. that impact workflows. As other RAW motion cameras enter the market, people are starting to realize that a lot of the aspects of RED that they have been complaining about also pertain to the URSA, shooting ARRI RAW, etc.. Anyway, I'm starting to derail.

I think the best course of action is to wait until post-NAB and get a better feel for the landscape. You will see more F3 cameras for $4K and less. There will be more option for used Scarlet-MX and Scarlet-Dragon cameras as Weapon ships out. Also other cameras like the F5, C300, C500, and more.

Also some advice to a new shooter looking into RED or similar cameras, especially now that others are starting to become more modular and configurable... A useable camera kit can be a lot more expensive than the camera itself. I have more money in support and accessories and media for my EPIC kit than I do in the EPIC itself and then there's glass on top of that. With the bigger better camera, you'll also want bigger and better computers too. Things can snowball pretty fast.

Going back to the F3. It is a step up from the VG10, but not a huge step up. Mostly a lateral step, IMO. Better acquisition codec and frame rate options are the primary advantages and you're not stuck with the Sony E-Mount lenses or the use of there types through finicky adapters. With the F3, you're moving to PL glass, which is a whole other world in itself. Lenses become more expensive and you will actually have a lot less freedom in regards to which lenses you can use. As flakey as some of the E-Mount to Canon/ Nikon/ PL/ etc.. adapters can be, at least they're possible. Can't go from PL the other direction due to the flange depth of the PL mount to start with. Once again, that's another advantage to RED where we can have a PL mount or a Canon or Nikon...

 

[Brian Merlen]

i have a nex vg10 too! i friggin hate that thing, id literally rather not shoot then use it lol! i've wanted to throw it out of a building to do a suicide POV, just to try and rid myself of it! but i digress...


i think you should keep saving and get a used red one or scarlet, and shoot raw... cuz sony colors and codecs kind of blow, f3 is okay i guess. I've used it, but id def shoot log with it at all times vs use sony presets.. id weigh getting a gh4 or sony a7s or something still in that price range but a little better specs. on board recorders can help improve cameras in this price range, something to consider long term...7q paired with a consumer/prosumer camera can help a lot..or even a cheaper recorder if needed...

glass lasts longer then bodies, paying up for PLs or L series or something decent wouldn't be bad either when you can do it...Red Pro Primes are a cheap set...cuz even when you have decent camera bodies (like i finally do) you still need good glass, and id also throw my E mounts out the window lol! i don't even own good glass, I'm contemplating getting an entry level PL set like red pro primes just to get by for now until i grab some kowas and other more lucrative goals.. jeff is very accurate on the support gear grows fast, better sticks, heads, glass, etc...it adds up but thankfully some purchases last a lot longer then bodies...

 

[David Peterson]

With the F3, you're moving to PL glass, which is a whole other world in itself. Lenses become more expensive and you will actually have a lot less freedom in regards to which lenses you can use. As flakey as some of the E-Mount to Canon/ Nikon/ PL/ etc.. adapters can be, at least they're possible. Can't go from PL the other direction due to the flange depth of the PL mount to start with. Once again, that's another advantage to RED where we can have a PL mount or a Canon or Nikon...

Wrong there, Sony F3 can use all sorts of lenses! As under that PL mount.... there is the Sony FZ mount, which allows not just FZ lenses, but all sorts of adapters to be used with it. Such as Nikon lenses, which is my intention.

But you are very correct about prices coming further down! I'm going to pick up Sony F3 tomorrow for a similar price to an old Canon 5Dmk2 (once you've kitted that out with a basic cheap audio recorder and monitor, to at least pretend to match the same basic functionality of a F3!).

How could a person say no to a deal like that?? :-D