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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Underwater Bubble Blowin' Users Group

Damn fish...

Damn fish...

BajaProductions said:
Ken and company,
...can never get the fish to take 2.

Thoughts?.....
Click to expand...

Actually, I would like to get some input on the 24P/60P thing too. My gut feeling is the more information we capture the better we are - that is the highest resolution and the highest frame rate.

I think we can only get 24P right now in 4K REDCODE RAW (the spec says 30fps but Jim said in a recent post that it may be a later update to get 4K at 30fps eventually)

My feeling is I will shoot 4K whenever possible and I think we should shoot the highest frame rate we can as well, and do pulldowns in post. However, I haven't been doing a lot of editing in the past few years so what seems like it should be easy in Final cut, may be more difficult than I think.
 
An interesting question. I would say that if one is building a 4K stock library or shooting a specific 4K project NOT slated for 4K/60fps release/projection than the advantage is lost. You have also increased your 4K data storage by 2.5x as well, no? Although you do gain by having a 2.5x reduced exposure for the ISO 500 rating they're getting on the set of Wanted at 180deg/24fps.

I would work closely with my editors and engineers before shooting outside the envelope or betting on any advantage of the 4K/60 shooting mode.

Here's an informative thread where David Mullen and others address the discussion. You might raise this question in the ask david anything thread.
http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/lofiversion/index.php?t15157.html

Mike - you'll love FCP it's software that is fun to learn. Us U/W guys don't have to worry about synch sound in the pull downs either.
 
But eventually I would imagine the 'big boys' are going to be looking at 4k stock acquisition for future programming. Quite how far in the future that would be remains to be seen but it will obviously happen. If someone were to shoot stock exclusively, and if they survive the 'lean times' building up to that time of format need then surely they would be 'quids in'?

Shooting in the dark maybe but thats just my thought.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
RE: frame rates:

RE: frame rates:

I just looked at the format options page again just to refresh and it definitely shows 30fps as the limit for 4K REDCODE RAW which is our format going to a harddrive or CF. Jim stated that we would only have 24fps for a while. But what do you think of shooting everything 30fps - that's only 25% more data?

I'll take a look at davids post - he's usually got a pretty good take on things.

sharkguy said:
Us U/W guys don't have to worry about synch sound in the pull downs either.
Click to expand...

So you don't mind if those bubble sounds are off a frame or two?

EDIT: Just looked at that thread, which is mostly about 60p for showscan purposes. I wasn't really thinking we wanted to display in 60p - just that if we shot 60p we would have those extra frames if you wanted to slow it down. Again maybe our 4K REDCODE RAW limit of 30fps is a good compromise.

I've always been curious about SHOWSCAN - never got to see it, but that's a subject for another thread. I did enjoy David's response to the one guy where he says "THINK THINK THINK about it" to the guy that's being obtuse. I've felt that way a few times on some of the other threads.
 
What I like about shooting in 60p (stock footage that is) is that anyone that buys the footage can use it for slow motion as well. If you slow it down in the timeline it works. 24p just doesn't. My thought was shoot 24p for a specific job if asked and 60p for stock since it has more uses. I can't say that the 24p stuff looks much different than the 60p...until a fish makes a quick move and then you get some strange effects. 24p looks awsome on nice rhythmic moving animals and plants. but then when you get a wham quick move on something---say a predation shot---it just may not look so good at 24p. Correct me if i am wrong here----maybe i'm a poor camera operater--but that is my experience with 24p underwater. 60p sure makes it easy to not screw up.Way more storage--yes! But this of course might be a moot point since at 4k only 30p is available. Now...the question of archiving and a proper software solution???
 
The other format to consider if it becomes available is 2K scaled at 60 fps if you are going to be filming fast paced scenes or even 2K cropped at 100 fps. Jim also referred to other 4K and 2K options being considered, so hopefully we will get a 4K 60 fps option for on-board shooting in the near future. If more options do become available at 4K, the question is whether to film most of your footage at 24 fps or do we stick with 25 and 30 fps for the bulk of our work depending on your location?
 
Hey Russ and Cindy,
Glad to see you made it here. Its a shame when the HD(V) and above formats were (are in the process of) being founded that the playing field wasn't completely leveled. OK so we now seem to be fine with the screen resolutions at 1080 and above but we're still banging heads (and causing concerns for stock shooters) with the whole frame rate issue. I guess it will be a loooooong time coming before that also gets conformed to one standard.
"C'est la Vie said the old folk".

Cheers,
Mark.
 
I wanted to check in with the bubble blowers group to see if anyone was going to be out at the Jackson Hole wildlife film fest this october? It would be great to meet up with any red users out there, talk shop, and kick around some thoughts for housings, and how amazing it will be shoot with Red once it ships.
Mark, saw some of your images from Indonesia-very nice stuff. I am going to submit something to San Diego as well but won't be able to attend do to a film trip. Sorry I'll miss seeing your piece on the new killer display in Qualcom.

Best,
Jason
 
Hey Jason6am,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm going to be in DC in October for a symposium but am then slated to go directly out to Darwin, Australia for a project. Won't be able to get down there this year. I'm concentrating on getting a short finished for the 'big one', Antibes, France, at the end of October at the expense of SDUFEX in San Diego.

Such is life but I don't know when I'm going to have the chance to enter into another festival so I prefer to temporarily 'bow out' of the festival circuit at one of the most respected of European meetings. I won't be able to accompany the entry seeing as I'll be in Australia during the screening, last weekend in October. I'll be there in spirit willing the film on.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Mark,
Good luck on your entry for Antibes. I hope you blow them away with all of the amazing macro that you have been shooting. You are defiitly situated in one of the dive meca's of the world, truly a gorgeous area.
I won't be able to be there in person for my SDUFEX piece. It kills me that I'll miss it but that is the way it goes sometimes. Again, best of luck with the editing and have a great time in Australia.
Best,
Jason
 
Jason,
Being based here is a dream. I've been around the islands of Micronesia and Palau for the past, almost, seven years. I could stay here indefinitely but there are bigger fish to fry. I'll be letting everyone in on some pretty wild news as soon as things get finalized.

Thanks for the encouragement for Antibes. Just waiting for my 'voice slut' to finish his magic so I can lay down the commentary track etc.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Housing design input/ideas?

Housing design input/ideas?

Clock is ticking - any input or ideas on these topics for the underwater Red camera system?

Sharky

Here is the roughly to scale break down of the red one with battery, HDD and lens choices for selection of the tube stock for the housing (PVC and Aluminum). The Zeiss 10 mm VS the Canon 10-22 mm is the $10K question. Both yield a 16 mm equivalent with the CMOS 1.6x conversion factor for a 107 degree field of view. Maybe the 8" diameter tube stock will work for the housing with an 8" dome port?

The Zeiss is 2" longer and 2.5" wider. May be a moot point with the Birger adaptor.

I thought of a tray for the camera that locks at the bottom and a tray for the HDD and battery that either locks at the top or at the bottom separately for ease of change out with out disturbing the camera. Canon/Birger solution requires a board to run the focus and fstop? The Canon does have a manual focus ring.

I figure a screw on ND 2 will rate the ISO at 125. This should work in daylight - clear water for fstop range of 22 to 5.6 depending on depth at a 24 fps 180 deg shutter or 1/48 sec @ ISO 125. What will matter under water is the center sharpness for subject matter in CFWA of large animals - sharks, whales etc. Edge sharpness is not as critical UW except in 4K projected on a theatrical screen?

Canon lens review:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-S-10-22mm-f-3.5-4.5-USM-Lens-Review.aspx
 
Is there anyway to get around a screw on ND filter? With lens and glass port placment issues...is there anyway to have the nd filter on an attachment that you can manually flip up and down? Or is there an issue of distance from lens to glass port that will not allow this?
I'm assuming that each lens has its optimum f stop range and having a permanent nd filter might affect it. So it is on the hvx 200. And I use a flip down nd from time to time as well as the internal nd. But the f stop range is finicky so i'm adding and removing nd's all the time in order to stay within the optimum f stop range.
....does this make sense only to me? I have no idea if i said was understandable. I just use the danged thing. what do you think ken?
 
I think the work around is the exposure latitude provided by the RED camera. It's not video and it's not film. Jarred said to watch the highlights. That said I think that Mike Hastings can/will build anything into the housings.

A 77 mm ND filter on the Canon requires a 3" throw so the diameter of the housing takes a huge hit. Building a pocket/cavity for the ND throw increases the price of the housing and may be a bit unsightly?

Testing will reveal more shortly but I'd guess that the ND screw ons are the simple solution. No ND at night (ISO 500) and the ND 2 by day in sunlight/clear water above 2 ATM of depth and a ND 1 for deeper daylight work (ISO 250). Expose properly and underexpose by 1/2 a stop when in doubt. The result should be excellent given the exposure latitude of the camera?

Thoughts?
 
Bowing out, for all the right reasons.

Bowing out, for all the right reasons.

Since this whole thing began I've had nothing but absolute respect for those willing to push the envelope. Sure I've banged heads with a few people on the way but, hey, thats all part of life. Like adults we move on, forgive and forget.

I guess there's no easy way to say it but I've just cashed in my reservation. Arghhhhh, I hear you all screaming, but there's a perfectly good reason. I've recently accepted a full time gig with The National Geographic Society and will be heading up a couple of their ongoing projects, namely WildCam and Crittercam.

It's a bittersweet decision. I really wanted to look forward with RED, to stand amongst the ranks of those forging the future and on the other hand to have this position on my resume will speak volumes in future years. I do have potential scenarios of what I can do whilst I'm working with 'the Society' but I'm not going to go into those here.

I will still be around the forums and welcome any inclusions in discussions etc regarding the movement to introduce RED to the reefs of the World. I'm still one of you guys, minus the reservation number .....

Thanks for all the great conversations of the past. Long live the great conversations of the future.........

Thanks one and all, I'll be keeping up with all of your opus projects, and I'll join you one day. Although which generation of RED that will be with remains to be seen.

Thanks again,
Mark.
 
Like I said, its a bittersweet deal. The people here are true professionals. It became an ingrained part of my day to swing by the RED Net to see what was going on. I'll still be doing that now, albeit as an observer.

Thanks,
Mark.
P.S The only thing to revert the decision would be if Jim were to hire me as the official underwater tester for all things RED, yeah right. What would life be without ambition?
 
Hey guys,
I may have jumped the gun a little with the whole refund ideas so I've decided to hold on to everything for now. Just couldn't come to terms with negging out on RED. It a drug I tell ya!! I guess getting the offer I had all ideas running through this cavity of an airspace I call a brain and RED was one of the casualties of that. Back on track, looking at options and trying desperately to see if the future bosses will accept me with RED.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
OK,

If you could shoot RED underwater anywhere in the world in late September or early October this year where would you go?
 
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