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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Underwater Bubble Blowin' Users Group

Mark Thorpe

Mark Thorpe

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Location
Bali, Indonesia.
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www.liquidmocean.com
Hey hey, we had a thread, now we got a group area, things are heating up. Still working on the perfect extReme shot with the sharks and my little Titanium Buddy. Will nail it in a few days.

Looking forward to see how this goes for the WetUsers

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Waiting for your shots...

Be careful!
 
I want to see your Ti R in a shot with a hammerhead. I'm probably asking a bit much though. :D
 
I wish I could get to see a damned Hammerhead!! They are here at this time of year and sightings have been sporadic. I bumped into a Tiger Shark the other day at 160ft down but he was on a mission and was haulin' ass. No time to line up a shot with R. The waters are cooling down here now as they tend do do so at this time of year. Cold water upwellings bring plankton and loads of predators in its wake. The vizibility suffers a bit but guaranteed I'll be trying to get a nice image for the R shot. Will keep at it. I may just have to stick with a Grey Reef Shark composition but will try holding out for one with a species less common.

Fingers crossed.

Best,
Mark.
 
CamDiver said:
I bumped into a Tiger Shark the other day at 160ft down but he was on a mission and was haulin' ass.
Click to expand...

Things like that just leave me a bit speechless. What a life! I would probably scared to death, heh. Did went diving in Greece once which I loved. Too bad we don't have such waters here in Holland.
 
Deep Gases...Red at 100 meters

Deep Gases...Red at 100 meters

Since you asked about Deep Gas Mixes:

Here's a link to a deep water Palau expedition I did that will answer many of your deep gas questions:

http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/treks/palautz97/

I did it shooting digital betacam in a pace housing to 120+ meters everyday while shooting a Discovery Channel Special. Can I just say how stoked I am about using my Red system to push the production envelope underwater. I'm thinking coelacanth in HD...

The mix I used in Palau for our deep dives is known as trimix: HE, O2 and N. The helium is an inert gas used to reduce the percentage of O2 and N to allow for optimal percentages at depth.

I was using a CIS-LUNAR computer controlled rebreather which actually maintains an optimal PPO2 but trimix was the deep water diluent. Our refined techniques today utilize heliox instead of trimix.

And yes, air being a 21/79 mix becomes toxic at 217 ft
Where the never exceed PPO2 1.6 = (depth/33 + 1) x .21

In English, that means the "air" one is breathing at 217 feet is the equivalent of breathing 160% oxygen at the surface. The "toxic" means that the body will react to excessive oxygen known as hyperoxia. It's not hyperoxia that kills you it's typically the seizure underwater that causes the problem. And the PPN2 or nitrogen your breathing at these depths can really make you stoned right Mark?

Maybe that's why you're out so deep everyday on air?

Lucky Bum....
 
hehehehe, wouldn't change it for the World sharkguy,

Personally I'm 'old school' and prefer to stick with good old air. I don't dive EANx (Oxygen enriched air) as it again reduces the safe depth limit but allows longer bottom times at shallower depths. I may be looking to go through to Closed Circuits in the future as one particular contract (pending) could be very lucrative but is yet to be finalized and will require that. However I want to hold off on the $9k course fees to get me 1 on 1 training from air to Trimix 2 and everything between.

Rob: Anytime I come face to face with a potentially dangerous animal there is a slight twitch around the old crimper but it's all a matter of how you condition yourself to not transmit that emotion when the event happens. I love the feeling of getting up close and personal with the big stuff but personally prefer to film the micro organisms on the reef.

Chas: I don't realy push too far on air. Max here is on a dive site called Siaes Tunnel where I bumped into the Tiger the other day. There's a pinnacle that appears at 160ft where infrequent sightings of bigger critters have been made over the years. I will venture max on air to around 60 - 65m. Job wise I run my own small underwater imaging concession alongside the pioneer dive shop here in Palau. Its a living and allows me to dive everyday if I need to in my search for footage. I pay the bills by diving with people and making DVD's of their dives. A three tank dive (daily stuff) sells for $95 per client, or I get booked to film for groups etc. Its all good fun and recreational diving hardly ever exceeds 40m so pretty safe whilst all the time allowing me the potential to be in the water at the right time.

When RED happens though I may be looking to pass the concession on and concentrate on networking through the film making industry as an available asset for wet environment filming. That and potentially looking for a cheaper base, with diving, to continue with the stock shooting. Palau is great but I will be looking for somewhere with better macro critters as that is where the diversity lies. There are only so many times you can sit there face to face with a shark, a manta or a turtle. The macro world is so diverse and in my opinion takes harder efforts to record it well.

I couldn't imagine going a week without diving !!!!!! ;)

Cheers,
Mark.
 
For 4K I would prefer a PL Cine lens rather than the Nikon. Preferably something fast like the T2 Cooke 15-40 or T2.2 Angenieux 17-80. Or the Red zoom even though it is a stop slower. In any event I would much prefer a PL mount Cine lens. No adapters please! Optics quality is critical at 4K. That would be my vote, although I may well be in the minority.

I know it will be a problem for Gates picking which lens to support. That is why the simplest thing may be to go with the RED Zoom (which is relatively affordable), and then we can get more exotic later. RED camera plus RED zoom plus Gates housing. Makes sense to me.
 
This is more like it guys:

Housing Considerations (Gates appraisals seeing as that seems the chosen option at the moment):

The main stumbling block is going to be the lens factor. I've chatted with John at Gates and they haven't even got the ball rolling on this yet as they want to get an idea of what the masses (only a handful of housings reserved at this point) are going for on the glass front. Personally I would prefer a lens that can cover many shooting scenarios something like the Cooke 18-100mm T3.0 or the 20-100mm Cooke T3.1 but really would prefer something with just a tad more speed. I also have the Fathoms SWP44 already so for certain shots to be able to access that incredible 117 degree FOV would be huge. For the SWP44 to work seeing as it was designed to be used with the Z1 with no additional filters we basically need to find a prime lens with a 67 degree FOV to match that of the Z1 @ its widest.

I really feel that the Red Zoom at 300mm is going to be way too long a lens for Macro applications.

For the lenses I can see the design following the strategy as I have always mentioned. That each lens will have an extension bracket specifically for that particular lens with the manual operating gears for focus, aperture and telephoto if that is required. Its the only way I can see the lenses working correctly when one has a multiple glass selection.

For the HiRez LCD I would think it would be much cheaper in the long run to look at getting the RED made LCD and then request that Gates construct their housing so that the LCD can be viewed via a viewing window (a la Amphibico Phenom for the Z1 - www.amphibico.com) Lens hoods can be part of the housing accessories if needed.

Any more thoughts?

Mark.
 
Hi Mark,

The RED Zoom is 18-85mm F2.8 (probably about T3.0-T3.2?). The RED 300m prime is not useful for underwater, you are correct. The RED Zoom should be right around 68 degrees AOV at the wide end. I am okay with the Cooke 18-100 if that is the consensus, but I don't think it will be much better than the (much less expensive) RED Zoom.

I already have the Gates EM419 monitor with our XL H1 housing. I too have the SWP44 port and would like to use it. I believe it should work fine with the RED Zoom, but we should check with Gates.

I think the RED Zoom will do what you want Mark.
 
Hi Mike,
I too have many of the Gates accessories, monitor, tripods, domes etc but will be selling the whole line to make way for RED. It would be nice to have a backup but HDV is just no comparison and no one is gonna see that as a viable back up unit anyway.

I never reserved any of the RED Lens options for this very reason. I would prefer to find a lens with the long end around 100mm for macro. I heard that the BBC used the Tamron 90mm f2.8 on some of their cams (OK its autofocus so a gear would be required) for the Planet Earth series and they loved it.

So still in a quandry for the lens at this point.

Best,
Mark.
 
Friggin' lenses...

Friggin' lenses...

Guys,

Great input.

I love the cooke zooms also, but face it, $45,000 for a lens! Plus they are 9-12 inches long and weigh as much as the red camera or more. For me the hassle of renting Cookes just won't work and certainly not for Gates customers.

Now I agree - I can live with $10K for the Red 18-85 zoom but it is slated for "release late 2007." That means early 2008 for a housing, yikes! I need to be shooting this Summer if the camera release goes as scheduled... or pissing away money on 900 and housing rentals for HDCAM while RED #1438 sits dry - OUCH!

Personally, when framing on the fly underwater with big critters I prefer a top mounted LCD to a rear of housing mount. It's kinda' awkward holding the housing out in front for framing.

I'm curious to see the results of the Nikon 17-35mm zoom with red adapter given the price point and overall capabilities.

The only problem I see with different front ends for the Gates housing is convincing John to do it, the additional o-ring, and finalizing lens selections.

Looks like I'm gonna' have to modify my Eclair ACL housing to fit the RED camera if I want to shoot RED UW this year - glad I hung on to it.
 
Hi Sharky,
http://www.used-filmequipment.com/products/details.php?show=11:6763

Wasn't thinking of spending more than $10k total for glass. I'm not planning to buy anything Cine other than used and if priced right.

The LCD on RED can be made to attach pretty much anywhere and in any position. The LCD is not located on the rear. I also prefer top mounted for framing on the fly. I imagine most of my stuff will be set to specific shot lists though and I'm not thinking about swimming along a reef in the hope of finding interesting stuff to film with RED.

Regarding lens options for Gates I too believe that we will be seeing the housing revolving around a single lens but there will obviously be shooters with deeper pockets than others who will also opt for custom built lens brackets for specific glass, not that I am in that group unfortunately.

As you may also be aware I am stepping up from HDV and am taking the time before getting my hands on RED #954 to learn as much as possible. That also means the fact that I have never worked on Cine lens theory whatsoever in the past. Slowly getting there so be patient if I make what seems to be any crazy opinions etc. I'm always of the mind that the lens needs to be as wide as possible and offer a good macro ability. With photography I have many friends who use a variety of 105mm lenses with diopters for the really small stuff. I am only imagining that this technique would be possible with certain long lenses with greater tele characteristics than 35mm? Can anyone expand on / correct that thinking.

As much as I'd like to think I can 'touch" well on the macro scene there are some fantastic shooters out there who amaze me with their stuff. Bob Cranston, Howard Hall and Peter Scoones for example. The way I see it these true masters have to move over some day. I for one will be waiting in the wings, along with many others, in the hope of filling in the spaces.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
underwater red configuration 4K...

underwater red configuration 4K...

Here's a configuration I am looking at for an underwater red system that will fit in my ACL housing while waiting for the Gates system.

I located the battery and drive underslung may change depending how I can squeeze it into the housing.

Nikon 17-35mm with Century HD .8 converter. I haven't done the math on the dome (6"?) but thanks to Ralph Oshiro here's the 4K lens math:

"...using the 1.62x lens cropping factor, if you're acquiring in 4K:"

17mm x 1.62 = 27.54mm
35mm x 1.62 = 56.70mm

Or 22mm with .8 converter which is equivalent to the 14mm with cropping factor allowing full zoom thru capability?

Obviously not to scale
 
Full circle return to manual metering?

Full circle return to manual metering?

I am going to try a color chart on my fin for reference in post for 4K Raw output.
 
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