Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Underwater Bubble Blowin' Users Group

RE: Amos

RE: Amos

Tell Amos Mike from AquaVideo says Hi. Amos is one of the good guys, met him back in '86 through my friends at Fisheye in Grand Cayman - still say Hi every year at DEMA but have never been diving with him - maybe it's time for everyone to hook up somewhere - maybe the RED sea?


CamDiver said:
Hanging here in Palau with Amos
Cheers,
Mark.
Click to expand...
 
AquaVideoRed206 said:
maybe it's time for everyone to hook up somewhere - maybe the RED sea?
Click to expand...

Great pun! On a trip to the Near East a few years ago I went free diving and snorkeling in the Red Sea. Way beautiful...

What could be more appropriate than diving in the Red Sea with RED One?!
 
Yeah, way to go. I've also heard that whilst we will be getting the goods in the RED sea there is a planned shoot for other 4K wannabees in the ....... dead sea!
Couldn't resist.

Hope all is well.
Mark.
P.S Any of you guys get RED enabled and flights to Palau and I'll look at getting some kind of deal going with dive shops for preferential rates. But seriously, planning to start doing some expeditions to pay for the filming for stock. Plenty of people out there really into video who'd like to have some kind of training seminar etc. Working on outlines.
 
Spent the day Friday with underwater housing designer Mike Hastings from Aquavideo. I must say he is very sharp and has some great design ideas. I will no doubt commission Mike to build my RED housing based on his ideas and proposals and also the fact that he spent the time to review the design parameters with me in person. This is a professional housing solution and not a one size fits all - however, Mike can build whatever your production needs require. The build time for the first housing is 6 weeks from when I can get him a REDONE camera to build around.

The design is also dependent on the results of the initial REDONE lens testing - drum roll please - will it be the Canon 10-22mm with Berger interface ($2K?) or the Zeiss 10 mm prime ($10K?) for professional 4K redcode RAW underwater acquisition?

Questions that came up post NAB include:
1) Can we change frame rates underwater (12 -60 FPS?)
2) Can we change other as yet unannounced in camera adjustments underwater?
3) Is there value to using the EVF underwater (a major housing design change required)?
4) Quick change ideas for battery and red drive (Mike has some clever ideas that reduce camera exposure to the elements).

And other cool stuff that are Mike's proprietary ideas not suited for posting but rather his paying clients.

With a little luck I may have the first 4K underwater footage and tests to share with you all by June?
 
Evf & Lcd

Evf & Lcd

KC,
I almost exclusively use my EVF underwater.....for housing designs that have designs around them that is. LCD not so great in some cases for critcal focus in that not all hold such great resolution---I'm sure I'll get some remarks on that. But bottom line as you know the resolution of the EVF vs LCD's exterior mount is pretty lack luster. I wasn't clear on the red LCD---what's the res on that? Did i hear right that the red EVF is 720p ?

Don't know how you could use it to full extent though without having its own housing....as on the Amphibico F950 housing and Gates cusom built that Howard and Bob have.

Anyway---good avenue to figure. What are you thinking? LCD??
 
BAJA J,

I hear you. The tradition is to house the EVF in a small aluminum/pvc tube with some sort of magnification and use it top or side mounted on the camera housing. This is no doubt the only solution for CU and macro work in 4K underwater.

What I am thinking about is when using a wide prime to capture large critters the RED LCD may be ideal given the resolution and brightness plus the camera data is on screen (an underwater first I think?). The focal DOF thru a dome is a known constant of x" to inf. Given this safe margin of DOF it is the framing I am really focused on. Remember when we were being hunted by that pair of Mako sharks in blue water that wouldn't let us get back to the boat ladder? This is what I mean by being able to frame the action with the LCD and know the camera is recording while also maintaining situational awareness. Hard to do with the face mask stuck to an EVF with one eye closed.
 
More sounds better

More sounds better

Agreed!
I do however like the idea of both (assuming $$ is never an issue). For doing Macro work....slide on the EVF to the housing via a rail that clamps down to hold your housed EVF when doing work requiring dead on focus. Then when you know you are working say in open water and you know your dof / subjects and you want to see them framed up so you can keep one eye on the LCD and other on your PPO2 or other predators or maybe just so you don't crack into the reef or your lighting operator----then you slide on your housed LCD...on the same rail.
I like that. Sounds like the dimes are adding up but it's always been like that no? :weight_lift:
 
Having both options in the field is ideal and exactly the way you describe it. Cool thing is they are both supplied by the same connector type (I believe?) which makes the switch out very simple - plug and play, plus they both draw power from the camera. The 3 housings, camera - EVF - LCD, all still fit nicely into a pelican case from my design drawings.

I think Mike recommended PVC for the monitor housings based on a clever reason I don't recall. He'll probably have housings for both available with pricing after building the prototypes for me. If the choice is either or then I'd probably suggest the EVF since most shooters have used these over the years.

Anyone going to request/use the following on their RED housings:

1) 720P video out for surface monitoring?
2) Audio in?
3) Mic for underwater ambient sound?
 
sharkguy said:
Anyone going to request/use the following on their RED housings:

1) 720P video out for surface monitoring?
2) Audio in?
3) Mic for underwater ambient sound?
Click to expand...


K,
Definately Audio in, I'm not convinced undewater mic is much better than mic within housing and of any great importance. As for 720p surface monitoring....I don't use it, but I know of folks that do. If looking how to spec out a housing with options.....that's my inuput....only Audio In, but I would likely add video out if it was an affordable option.
 
Now we're starting to get ever closer to the reality of 4K underwater. Ken, you're a lucky guy being potentially the first to dunk RED. I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of attentive ear twitching going on in anticipation of your results. Keep it going mate.

Glad to see that you're feeling better too.

Regarding audio I would say an external mic would be best seeing as there could be a whole load of noise, clunks, clangs, bangs and shakes going on inside the housing. Its always nice to have an almost inaudible ambient breathing bubbles soundtrack IMHO. Gives a big feel to the whole production. You could also have a canned breathing track and foley it for any really obvious requirements.

Best,
Mark.
 
Well I have to be honest - I'd love to be the first one to shoot RED 4K underwater - it would be an honor. Posting the results will be big news for all of us. I certainly will have the first professional housing thanks to the brilliant efforts of Mike Hastings at Aquavideo and to Gibby for letting me make the intitial underwater housing drawings and designs off of #8. The question is timing and subject matter - like Jim said, "Bad red footage is not our fault." Don't think my initial efforts will be subject to this disclaimer. The June cameras are not slated to be fully feature enabled, but hey, I only need a record/stop function at 4K redcode RAW 24p for my intitial underwater tests.

Figure 6 weeks from measuring #8 and the housing will be ready so that is some time in June? My personal camera will not ship until October based on the projected shipping dates. However, in conversations with lower number reservation holders a few possibilities exist.

The trick is always in the choosing:
Subject matter options for me in June include (moving from easy to diffcult) 1) Kelp forests off the channel islands 2) Giant squid in Mexico working with Baja J. 3) Sperm whales in the Azores 4) White sharks in Africa 5) My 3 year old son Kai in the pool with his dog

Of course no one can compete with RED providing "rockstars" like Cameron/Pace or Hydroflex with a RED beta model in May (if it already hasn't happened) to design and test with underwater. I think the difference is that I will share my knowledge, testing and results with the reduser community openly.

I look forward to the amazing results of 4K underwater - very exciting!
 
All sounds good Ken,
As you I plan to share all of my attempts and failings here in the public forum with the rest of the "Bubble Blowers". Some may laugh at my initial mistakes but I walk tall. I'm stepping up from 3CCD Land and making a massive jump in formats, considerations and work flow. My public airing will help me to learn. I may make a few errors but hopefully those will be pointed out to me. I don't make any grand announcements of being a big noise in our domain, I love what I do and want to hone that into being able to display beautiful stories and 4k images of the marine environment. Sharing what I love with the world to raise awareness and understanding and hopefully instill a desire to protect and conserve.

If that happens then for me, job done.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
CamDiver said:
I love what I do and want to hone that into being able to display beautiful stories and 4k images of the marine environment. Sharing what I love with the world to raise awareness and understanding and hopefully instill a desire to protect and conserve.

If that happens then for me, job done.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better Mark - well done. Keep walking tall and I know I am looking forward to seeing your 4K images.

CamDiver said:
I don't make any grand announcements of being a big noise in our domain...
Click to expand...

Well you should mate, your images are spectacular and your story ideas are brilliant. Always yell from the highest tree you can find or no one will hear you.
 
Hey Guys,

I may have an interesting solution for our RED 4K wide angle prime lens woes. I'll let you know if the lead pans out.

Sharky
 
Sperm whales ...

Sperm whales ...

sharkguy said:
Sperm whales in the Azores
Click to expand...

how are you getting round the 'legislation' ... now days there are so many regs in place it's hard to get close to whales underwater !
 
h2opixels said:
how are you getting round the 'legislation' ... now days there are so many regs in place it's hard to get close to whales underwater !
Click to expand...

An excellent question - IMHO - if a whale does not want to get close to you underwater and check you out then it ain't gonn'a happen. Based on my experiences around the planet with all types of whales it is simple - they're curious or they do not want to be bothered. The whales choose to interact with you or not. I think it's always critical to any production I am producing or working for that the production work closely with the local government agency responsible for enviromental protection and the tourist board to enhance awareness of ecologically sensitive areas and the inhabitants.

My first call/email is always to both of these entities to request formal film permits and ask what I can do to contribute to safe guarding these unique environments. If this includes supplying my footage gratis, paying fees, paying to subsidize local researchers and/or paying all costs for a park ranger to work with us while filming I'm all for it even with our continually shrinking budgets. The majority of the government agencies overseeing the "whale hot spots" work with established filmmakers to achieve the goals of the production while contributing to their protection and habitat conservation.

I have experienced a few, very few, places where I felt it was simply a pay and play deal. Specifically, that my money was going straight into a bureaucratic vaccum. The Azores is not an example of this as they are pretty savvy about protecting their resources but there are a few like this. I have a special permit to film in the Azores that was issued after a do diligence application process based on my credentials and the use of the acquired footage in documentaries that further the understanding of the area and its animals. The Azorean government required a fee for the permit and a copy of the footage to be used for education and tourism - an example of an effective film permit program.

In the case of the REDONE test shooting in the Azores, the footage will be used in one of the HD series specials Steve Gibby and I are producing for HD broadcast as well as a copy supplied to the Azorean government for use in education and tourism.

In my continued pursuit to educate and entertain humans about the wonders of the sea, REDONE has truly opened up a new door on technology.

Sharky
 
All sounds good Ken, good luck with it all. I'm banging around in the final throes of the busy season here in Palau. Getting geared up for the trip to Lembeh and then I guess it will be getting the office ready for the landing of RED #954. I'm in the process of making final decisions on lenses too. The RED Prime set is looking to be a good option later down the line depending on initial tests etc. With the work put in to RED though I'm pretty sure it will be a no brainer.

Mind you, this talk of planning for the future took a bit of a ding the other day. Currently in Palau we have one very big boat which normally serves as a liveaboard. It had been chartered for the past 3 weeks by one of the biggest production entities on the Planet. They are making some deep Ocean stuff split between here, Yap and Chuuk (Truk) Lagoon. They have some of the biggest names in the underwater camera operator world, from the U.S, the U.K and Germany, shooting the main feature on F900's 1080p @ 24P. However they also have a full on support crew of around 30 people, seven of which are B roll underwater camera guys. These people are shooting with the exact same HDV unit that I film with every day, including the SWP44.

However, and this is the killer. The producer of the show is also on the boat. As we always know, producers are continually busting balls to keep costs down. Well in the wisdom to cut costs down the B roll guys have been instructed to program their HDV units to shoot in the DV Format!!! The producers didn't want to use the cameras as decks to down convert and feed the imagery into the computers and also didn't go the extra $2k or so to buy the HDV deck for that operation. In the past three weeks the entity has used submersibles, helicopters and also flown in the NewtSuit for an 800fsw dive. They have contracted the world's creme de la creme of underwater camera operators, chartered a very expensive boat .............. and shot complete B roll in DV. Go figure.

I will personally use this project scenario when in the future, and its bound to happen, producers or project related people knock me back with the age old line, "ahhhhh, sorry but we're filming solely on true, uncompressed HD for this one". I'm just wondering too if people will then, post RED, come up with the excuse of the camera being above the quality requirement for their project? You know, like the brain surgeon getting knocked back from the GP vacancy due to their being 'over qualified'!

I have purposely avoided dropping names to protect the production entity and individuals involved.

Cheers from a very puzzled CamDiver,
Mark.
 
Thanks for the post Mark - sounds like a very cool program/series we will all enjoy. It's funny to think of the big bucks being spent to shoot in 1080p as a master with the pending release of RED, no?

I think a letter and HD-DVD demo following the release of RED fed exed to Alistair Fathergill at the BBC NAT History unit is in order as soon as doable signed by you, me and the rest of us first RED U/W shooters pointing out the folly in 1080p for the future and of course our availabilities and rates - hehe

And I have always said, who am I to argue with the wisdom of producers. I recall shooting for Nat Geo on a big series where the discussion was 16:9 vs 4:3 in SD (a few years back). I pushed for 16:9 since we were descending into an active volcano for amazing shots of a scientist collecting samples - great television. The producers chose 4:3 not seeing any value in my suggestion.

Well, the friggin' volcano erupted while we were ascending the glacial cap to the rim - there I was filming an active eruption at the mouth of a volcano. The first time to do so and survive it I believe. Later that night I received a call from a big time Discovery Channel producer, "Hey Ken, I hear you got the shot I really need. (beat) WHAT THE F#*K do you mean it's in 4:3 SD whose dumb a** idea was that."

I rest my case.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top