Underwater Bubble Blowers User Group Thread NEW

[Mark_Thorpe]

Frazier-- I recall that Oz lifeguards use 'Sheer Hosiery' (aka pantyhose). No Joke. Apparently the stingers are actually quite short, and will not penetrate thin nylon mesh, and so offers good protection.

If you take this advice, I'm sure the entire forum wants to see photos.

Also -- Ross Isaacs lives in Queensland and might have some wisdom on this topic.

And to add to that Frazier, apparently the pantyhose stay better in place when used in conjunction with black lacy suspenders! I'm sure the photo's will be respected for their professional content as much as for the dedication to the job.....:laugh:

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Johnny Friday]

And to add to that Frazier, apparently the pantyhose stay better in place when used in conjunction with black lacy suspenders! I'm sure the photo's will be respected for their professional content and respected for the dedication to the job.....:laugh:

Cheers,
Mark.

I see this suit all the time on hollywood blvd....if you know which side of town to go to.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Hey Pawel, saw your write up in this month's issue of American Cinematographer! Congrats!

Thanks, Nick.

There have been suggestions to make underwater housings review in American Cinematographer, if John J Ellerbrock and Mike Hastings were keen to participate. :devil:

...If you take this advice, I'm sure the entire forum wants to see photos.

priceless

 

[Mauricio Handler]

Pawel, et al.

Lets not forget there is another player in town.
Amphibico with its ROUGE housing is almost finished- It will bring a new perspective to what is already out there- a very important perspective...simplicity.
Since the owners and designers at Amphibico are not really water people (ironic but true) I am volunteering for this review, test, comparison
when the time comes.
I don't think this test/ comparison should be done as a "whos " better gig but rather should just layout the strengths, differences and celebrate
the fantastic innovation these manufacturers have achieved to finally allow all of us to take our Reds underwater.
The customers can make up their own mind when they are ready to lay down their hard earned cash.

Best -

 

[Michael Hastings]

Thanks, Nick.

There have been suggestions to make underwater housings review in American Cinematographer, if John J Ellerbrock and Mike Hastings were keen to participate. :devil:



priceless

Let me know...

 

[Frazier Nivens]

High-profile commercial was shot with DeepX and Nikonos 15mm for 2012 London Olympic sponsor and projected on a giant screen during the event. I posted one of the out-takes kindly forwarded to me by Phil Barthropp on Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/48845333

Very nice Pawel....thanks for sharing this.

 

[Frazier Nivens]

Box jellies swarm off our beaches in summer often by the thousands. They are relatively easy to film but you need to be very careful naturally. Another deadly relative is the Irukandji jellyfish is a tiny and extremely venomous cousin which probably sting more people each year. Frazier if you need any help co-ordinating your shoot off north Queensland I would be pleased to assist. If you want to film in 3D then naturally I have Deep Atom on stand by ;-) We often utilise the services of a James Cook University scientist Dr Jamie Seymour who is a world expert on both of these animals. We had him on a drama series "Reef Doctors" which I shot earlier this year off Port Douglas.

Thanks everyone for the good advise, I had planned on wearing a full wet suit, hood, gloves, just cause I usually do even when the water is warm anyway and OTS full face mask I figure covered completely and then have someone hose me off after the dive well and my gear.

And as for the Lycra suit, no you don't really want to see photos of that, too much hanging out to wear one of those, lol. I used to have one of the SSA suits from long ago.

Won't be wearing pantyhose John...I'm not into that kind of kinky stuff.

Ross, I will contact you via pm, the guys that's doing this love 3D but didn't want to hire another crew to have to fly over with gear, etc. But with you there that could change things. The filming is Nov 8th or 9th till November Nov 22nd. returning maybe day before Thanksgiving or maybe a day after.

Best,
Frazier

 

[Ross Isaacs]

Very sad to report that Ron Taylor one of my childhood heroes past away today. It was a great privilege to have known and worked with him. He will be greatly missed.

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

Very sad to report that Ron Taylor one of my childhood heroes past away today. It was a great privilege to have known and worked with him. He will be greatly missed.

RIP Ron, had the honor to bump into him last year in Bali, would sit and chat with anyone to spread his messages of hope for the Ocean and the need for conservation. Great camera guy and a guiding light for many of us.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Most of you know Tom Campbell, one of the finest underwater cinematographers in our business. (http://www.tomcampbell.com/). What you may not know is Tom's military service -- a former Force Recon Marine.

But Tom's greatest work (IMHO) is supporting his fellow Marines when they return from Iraq and Afghanistan. As an American and US Citizen, I thank them all for protecting the freedoms we enjoy every day.

Thank you Tom, for your service and honorable work.

 

[Ron Lagerlof]

As a newbie diver, I first met Tom Campbell on a Channel Islands live-aboard trip that included David Doubilet and several other photographers. Tom graciously helped me capture a photo of a Hilton's Aeolid nudibranch that won a prize in the trip's photo contest. I like to think that I repaid the favor by introducing Tom to some of my Sony friends when he decided to make the jump into HD video so many years ago. Now, I feel like we've come full circle, both shooting the most amazing and advanced U/W digital cinema rig available to date...

Happy shooting, Tom!
RL

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

Hey All,
Just an FYI, I have now linked my signature through to the Indiegogo profile I have created for what I am hoping will be my defining project. That with impending news of a soon to be announced housing option, albeit catering to the surf / splash requirements of digital cinema cameras is keeping me on my toes.

A lot more info on the website.

Cheers,
mark.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Hello colleagues,

I have decided to launch the blog/magazine site www.UnderwaterCinema.com, for the dissemination of information related to our art. That such an obvious domain name was available should speak to the fact that, although our field is full of luminaries and companies with established presences, there isn't nevertheless a site that aims at being a portal for the presentation and exchange of knowledge specific to our field. To start things off, I've been busy testing video lights, with the first review, of the Gates VL24 units, already published.

Please help make this site, in time, a valuable destination for us all. If any of you has gear reviews, tutorials, video showcases, unique projects and anything else you'd like to share, contact me and lets discuss whatever ideas you have. The bubble blowers thread has been VERY important for us RED shooters, and perhaps we can bring the same passion and commitment to a place that is not necessarily constrained by a specific brand/approach, but freer in essence, even if most of us will remain RED centric in our choices.

 

[Michael Maes]

"Default" settings for shooting u/w in the Caribbean

"Default" settings for shooting u/w in the Caribbean

Hi guys,


I know there's not such a thing as "default settings" but, to get an idea which direction to go, I will pop the question anyway.
I come from a DSLR background which might be a disadvantage, I don't know.
I have done my first 2-tank dive in the afternoon in Grand Cayman with the (Deep) Epic.
There was a slight overcast but generally good sunny moments.
The surface was heavily dappled but not real choppy.
I met two Sharks near the wall and shot them ambient with the following settings:


* Depth 80 feet
* Canon 8-15FE zoomed to 15mm
* No filter
* HDRx - 4 stops (which is stupid at that depth I guess)
* 4K HD
* 24 fps
* REDcode 7:1
* f22.6
* Focus distance 322mm
* Shutter 1/48
* Kelvin 100000
* ISO 800


With my DSLR I would have my aperture at f8 or a stop less.
But the image seemed so bright on the monitor, I closed the iris more and more till f22.6.
I assume that was major mistake one.


If I now white balance the clip I get zoo much noise (magenta), especially in the blues.
I only looked at the A-frame, since the blending makes the result dark.


Should I shoot underwater with a lower compression-ratio (is there a rule of thumb?)
Do you have any comments on everything I did wrong?

If I downgrade the resolution to e.g. 1080p, would that cure the image (a bit)?
If so, how can I do this? (I know, total newbie....)

Please don't "spare" me, I realize I'm back at square one and will have to learn massively to get the RED working great for me
Thanks!


Michael

 

[Pawel Achtel]

...With my DSLR I would have my aperture at f8 or a stop less.
But the image seemed so bright on the monitor, I closed the iris more and more till f22.6.
I assume that was major mistake one.

Yes, it was

Which brings us to an interesting subject: How do you guys shoot wide open?

I have recently shot some test charts with my trusty Nikonos 15mm at f/2.8 and I was blown away. The lens performed better wide open than many land lenses perform on land. Even the corner resolution was about 80% of the sensor Nyquist frequency limit. The Nikonos performed better at f/2.8 than a 9" dome with land lens at ANY f-stop! I think I'm not scared of the darkness anymore

BTW, does anyone want to see those results compared with Master Prime 14mm at f/2.8 shot through a dome port? The dome port failed to even resolve standard definition quality in MOST of the frame. Unusable even for television.

best fishes

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Yes Pawel, I'd like to see it.

There are some very specific shots I'd like to get, and I think your Nikonos rig is up to the job. As much as it pains me to say

I am flying down to Baja in my aircraft the day after tomorrow to a UNESCO World Heritage Site, Whale Sharks, Fin Whales, acres and acres of yellow tail tuna in the water, some of which will end up on the barbie, sorry about that, we will be getting as much u/w and topside as we can, my special project for this trip is time lapse of those gorgeous Baja sunsets, after the fashion of Tom Lowe.

But yes, I am convinced, the Nikonos stuff is stunning. Just wished I'd seen the real deal from you, as opposed to the other guys with the same idea who beat you to the punch. Walking the walk, is waaay different from talking the talk.

Cheers

 

[Pawel Achtel]

... Just wished I'd seen the real deal from you, as opposed to the other guys with the same idea who beat you to the punch...

Not sure what you are talking about, Tom.
If you think we can improve our products in any way to suit your needs better, let us know. We are listening.

Yes Pawel, I'd like to see it...

Full resolution 5k, 16-bit TIFFs of SFR charts can be downloaded from here:

achtel.com/DeepX/Charts/

Master Prime 14mm at f/2.8 plus 9" Aquatica dome, 1:1 (pixel for pixel) corner crop:

Nikonos 15mm at f/2.8 corner MTF measurement:

The setup:

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Michael,

Here are some of my observations and subsequent suggestions from the RED stuff I've shot and played with,

Monitoring
VERY important concept. NEVER go by the monitor to gauge exposure, you're putting yourself in a world of pain. I learned that the hard way with the Gates EM43, the monitor used on the other Gates housings before RED. Great little monitor, but as it doesn't have a brightness/contrast control, it tends to show an overly bright image whenever you use specific gammas with most cameras or if you tend to ETTR (Expose to the right). The only thing I trust for exposure is the histogram, plain and simple. Now, the RED monitors can be adjusted, so I would recommend you spend 2-3 dives playing with it, comparing its look to the histogram and adjusting it accordingly, until you come to a point where you know that you fairly close to the actual exposure by the image you see on the monitor. But before you do that, you first should tweak other things like:

White Balance
I know this is a RAW image, but you need to be very careful with the white balance, because even if it can be later changed in post, it will affect the look you get on the monitor. Personally, as somebody who does a lot of color correction, I would recommend NEVER working with white balance values above 8300, 8000 even better, 7500 being my favorite. Both when shooting and in post production. Anything over that, regardless of how much information you have or well exposed your shot is, you will start getting nasty red tones where you don't want them, especially turning your beautiful blue water into a magenta bath. You will also see a lot of noise and dirty blacks in your shadows, which will tend to make your monitor feed dark and low contrast. Stick with 8000 and you will get a more realistic feel for what you'll get in post as well as a much more watchable monitor during diving.

Aperture
I agree, you don't need narrower than F8, especially at 80 ft of depth and with that lens, which is sharp from F4 onwards all over the image plane. I know we still photographers tend to follow the rationale that narrow apertures yield deeper focus, which is true, but one needs to be careful because, underwater, where you have so little contrast as everything tends to be monotone, the lens actually needs light to focus, even if the rays are not as straight as with narrow apertures. Check this out using your peaking function and change apertures,l you'll see a lot more of the image in focus at apertures wider than your instinct would dictate. This took me a while to come to terms with at first, but I started believing when comparing the sharpness of different apertures. With wide lenses, I try to stay between F4 and F11, perhaps F16 in very shallow, well lit reefs. Wider than F4 and corners will be too soft, narrower than F16 and focus will drift all over the image plane, especially when tilting the camera up and down, alternating between bright surface and dark bottom values.

ETTR
Exposing to the right has a lot of value underwater, especially in deeper water where you don't have much of a risk of the nearby surface blowing out into white on you. I set my zebras for 90 IRE and expose so that the brightest parts of the scene are always "zebraing". This will yield a seemingly overexposed image, but you will get the biggest amount of information once in post. The deeper you are, the more parts of the image you can allow to hit that 90 IRE area, SO LONG as you don't have to set your aperture below F4-5.6, it is a game between those two. Consequently, when you're shooting in shallow, bright water, you can then set your zebras to 95 or even 100, and make sure only those highlights on the surface hit those values. In general, you want to get a "fatter" waveform than what you showed in your image, hopefully, with at least the blues reaching towards the 100 IRE mark.

I hope this has been helpful. I will be spending some time in Cayman soon, perhaps I can call on you and we can do some shooting together.

Regards,

 

[Pawel Achtel]

* HDRx - 4 stops (which is stupid at that depth I guess)
* f22.6

All good suggestions from Rudi.
HDRx will protect highlights. The problem you have is that you have no highlights in your shot, which is underexposed. At f/22 your images are obviously going to be diffraction limited and, in underwater environment, too dim no matter how much light you going to throw at it.

* Kelvin 100000
* ISO 800

These are meta data and have no effect on the final result.

If I downgrade the resolution to e.g. 1080p, would that cure the image (a bit)?

Unfortunately not.

I wouldn't get too hard on yourself: there has been more than once that I left the lens cap on....but we won't talk about that

.....and instead....

I am intending to run an Underwater Cinematography course between 13-16 December.

The areas I would like to cover are:

Underwater optics: understanding and overcoming limitations of flat port, dome port and submersible lenses. We will learn how to optimise your underwater optical system for best performance underwater, how to find the entrance pupil of the lens and align with the dome port, what lenses perform best and why, how to measure and improve underwater optics. How focus is affected by flat port and dome ports and how to convert the scales. How to measure MTF of underwater optics and why it is good for you?

Underwater lighting and colour: understanding of light underwater, underwater colour science, colour balance, exposure, colour temperature, filters, what light is best LED, HMI or tungsten and when, how to place the lights and how to achieve the desired look. How to consistently achieve great results?

Filming techniques: shooting for television and shooting for large screen, how to achieve bright, vivid, colourful and crystal clear images in what divers commonly refer to as "poor visibility". How to achieve perfect focus? Framing, camera movements and shooting sequence work. How to get rock-steady, smooth, interesting and breath taking shots consistently?

Underwater Filming Safety: I hold Certification Level IV in Occupational Health and Safety. I made 5000+ dives, most with a cinema-grade camera in my hands. I have almost 20 years of experience shooting from the Equator to Antarctica and in some of most unhospitable and remote locations imaginable, mostly diving solo, often at night, sometimes in conditions that would scare the daylights out of you: all carefully planned and with safety coming first. I also design, prototype, test and train special forces on using rebreathers and other, let's call them "toys", that enhance their capabilities and safety in the water. I will share with you how to identify, assess and mitigate common risks, stay safe and capable in the water environment when diving with a camera.

Optional Course:

Stereoscopic 3D Underwater: How to set up your 3D rig? Timecode sync, shutter sync and camera sync. Converge or not and how? Calculating depth budget underwater and how different it is from shooting on land? Calculating and estimating IA using foreground and background subjects. Beam splitter or side-by-side - advantages and drawbacks of each method.


We can accommodate all levels from novice to a bubble blowing master geek and anything in between.

There will be as much advice and science as you like and lots of practical fun in the water.

The course is manufacturer agnostic. You can bring your own housing and I will provide a DeepX and 3Deep to play with to your heart content.

You need to have at least open water certification if you want to get wet. We can organise diving gear and re-fills, including rebreathers.

The cost is $3,000 per person, 10% discount to all Redusers and free to all of our customers.

Spaces are limited on first in first served basis.

Please contact me by PM or email is always best (pawel.achtel at 24x7.com.au) for details.

best fishes

 

[Michael Maes]

I am intending to run an Underwater Cinematography course between 13-16 December.

Hi Pawel, where will this course be?
Thanks! Michael

Here are some of my observations and subsequent suggestions from the RED stuff I've shot and played with

Hi Rudi,

Wow, I'm baffled by the insight you gave me with your reply. I guess your reply contains more usable information than half a manual!
Yes I would like to hook-up if you come to Cayman.
It would be great to go diving together with my wife Ellen (http://wwww.ellencuylaerts.com) who is an avid underwater photographer.
Please throw me an email if you want to get into details: michaelmaes (at) me.com
Thanks a lot!

Michael