Underwater Bubble Blowers User Group Thread NEW

[Ross Isaacs]

Well said Rudi totally agree!

 

[Paul Russell]

BTW, the shoot in KK went brilliantly yesterday. Thanks for all your advice.

In the end, due to time and weather constraints, we shot without NDs or colour filters in 5m or less. I was in the water for almost 8 hours with only breaks for battery and lens changes. The Arri Ultra Primes were awesome, and so were the crew, including an Indian guy called Shamseer who was my focus puller, totally doing it by eye without looking at a monitor. Very impressive. The DOP, who is normally an Arri person, loved the RED footage and both the Gates and the Epic performed flawlessly throughout.

We shot in 5K at 6:1, so when it's bounced down to its target format of 720p it should look wonderful. Here's a sample with only a light S-curve applied.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

We shot in 5K at 6:1

That'd be burning through some serious gigatrons of memory Paul, mind me asking how much memory you used for how many minutes of footy? Did you have a chance to shoot any HDRx?

Glad it went well, congrats.

 

[Paul Russell]

We used up about 350GB, which is a lot for a 30 sec commercial. Didn't need to shoot HDRx at all as the DR was easily contained within the histograms. I fell in love with the Arri primes, they knock spots off the Canon L Lenses that I normally use. Here's a 50% size shot totally ungraded, natural light at 5m, that I took while hanging around waiting for one of the talent to get her bouyancy right.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Pawel,

I have been one of the most vocal opponents you've had on this forum, but like most everybody else I suspect, I've grown tired of this debate. It does not much matter who's right or wrong, for ultimately, that is a very subjective thing, but what's most important to me at least, is that it has been a while since meaningful exchanges in the art and practice of underwater imaging have flown through this thread. And that's ultimately what I come here for, first and foremost, gleaning technical knowledge a distant second. In this, my last comment to you on the subject, I would give you the following unsolicited advise...

I don't mind factual and respectful criticism or debate about products, solutions, tests, theory or footage. After all we have a common goal and all my efforts are directed at advancing underwater imaging. But, I'm not the subject of this thread. It would be great if we could keep the discussion free of personal remarks.

You have been harsh, outspoken and antagonistic with respect to the other manufacturers in this forum, and if you don't think so, retrace your steps and re-read your posts.

I think you are confusing criticism directed to products or solutions and being antagonistic towards competitors. Again, I would appreciate if everyone keept this thread factual and not personal.

There is nothing wrong debating a product, test, or picture...as long as the comments do not become personal, which was the reason why Jim had to remove many of the messages of some posters here. I'm often amazed how emotional physics can be.

But thinking that the "others" have nothing to offer is downright insolent, and worse, foolish.

I never said this. And, I couldn't agree more.

I have conducted EXTENSIVE tests on Epic with both the Nikon 14-24 and the Tokina 10-17 behind a 12" glass dome on a custom housing, and can tell you that the images look breathtaking...

Great, I look forward to see those tests. Have you published them?

Hi Dave,
I had exactly the same thought a year ago (after struggling with a particularly narrow field of view from a small mirror in a housing), but I know I wasn't the first and others have had it since. I think someone tried it with stills a while ago in a basic setup. I think in theory it's great, and I still get excited by what it could do. There are some big things to over come and I don't just mean the super large mirror required. The sealed box filled with clear water is necessary, to avoid bubbles and particles on the mirror, but obviously has a few handling issues. My biggest problem is the ability to maintain a good line up on the cameras. It's hard enough to maintain it on a topside rig and it still doesn't take much to knock a camera out of alignment. This is something that isn't a problem when a single whole housing is used. The cameras and mirror are isolated from the medium and are not subjected to the forces applied by moving swirling water. If a suitably strong mechanism (something that can hold the two camera housings and mirror, and still be able to achieve a full line up) could be built then I still think there is something in this idea, but it's a hell of a challenge!

Hugh

Hugh, you are spot on - it is a huge challenge. Alignment and matching pairs of underwater optics is very difficult and time consuming. I've done my share. For that reason we have build an optical work bench for testing and precise alignment of underwater lenses and underwater charts. It is the first step.
I think the mirror does not need to be large size as long as the optical elements (lenses) are small size too. But, challange of keeping bubbles and particles out of the mirror box still exists.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I, for one, LIKE the ugly. It throws customs off your scent when traveling on a tourist visa. Not that I do that.

You know, you're talking about my babies here ;-(

And, yes traveling to shoot in the Bahamas, or grand cayman, or Mexico, or curaçao, or Tobago, or the Philippines, or costa rica, or Bermuda, or Antigua, or... on a tourist visa would be wrong ... ;-)

 

[Jon Shaw]

Not sure if I could have pulled that off with a Gates product.

You would just have had to have been pretty handy

 

[Pawel Achtel]

We desperately need good 3D and that means controlling the 3D through a shot and/or adjusting it quickly between shots (and that means simple manual rigs are not good enough for what I want out of a 3D shoot, though I can envisage a fair number of situations where they might be). I made a wish list once of all the controls I'd like access too on a 3D housing and how they might be operated by a crew. Recently I was lucky enough to have some hands on with the Gates Atom housing. It covers every wish I had on that list, its also wide, with a much bigger mirror than I've had on an underwater rig before. Its an extraordinary thing. Good 3D control is the most important thing for the industry right now. Way more important than being super wide but with compromised 3D. The viewing experience is everything and for that you need control, I really worry about the amount of, well, really not that great 3D out there (with some obvious, notable, exceptions). Its great to see these mature and fully capable tools begin to emerge. Exciting times.

Hugh, I fully agree. After watching "The Last Reef" my favourite shots were the macro and closeups, where the 3D effect worked well. The 3D effect was not that good on wider shots and I still don't know if to attribute this mostly to distortions or poor choice of foreground, subject and background distances and framing of the camera. Probably a combination of things.

We are intending to have full electronic convergence and electronic (!) focus control option in the wet mirror rig as well as in DeepX and 3Deep. IA will be still manual, but fully, easily and quickly adjustable underwater.

We are also building a very neat housing for 7" Marshall 3D Orchid monitor, which is glasses-free.

Our main focus will be on maintaining small size and weight required for mobility. I believe one of the inhibiting factors in story telling underwater is the inability to get the variety of shots and angles quickly and easily. Of course, getting to location is another important consideration.

 

[Jon Shaw]

Those of you guys with Deep Epics, with the software update what settings are people using to get the record lever to function? The I have tried a few option but no joy, works via remote and power button, but I can't seam to get sync.

 

[Paul Russell]

Hi Jon

last weekend I was shooting using 3.0.7 and we set up the GPIO/Sync as follows:
Camera Sync In: General Purpose
Camera Sync Out: General Purpose (On 3.2.8 this would now be 'Recording Indicator Out')

That got both the record lever and the tally light working.

HTH

 

[Jon Shaw]

Perfect, thanks Paul

 

[Paul Russell]

glad i could help.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

I think this is something every u/w Red product operator should be seriously concerned about;

http://www.scubadiving.com/octopus-...2&spJobID=199449933&spReportId=MTk5NDQ5OTMzS0

 

[Paul Russell]

it would have to be a big occy to rip a Gates Deep Epic out of my hand!
Perhaps it could unscrew a Nikonos lens from another housing <evil grin>

 

[Michael Hastings]

I think this is something every u/w Red product operator should be seriously concerned about;

http://www.scubadiving.com/octopus-...2&spJobID=199449933&spReportId=MTk5NDQ5OTMzS0

That's a cool video, but wonder what pawel will say about the octopus's focus pulling?

Jim Abernathy's Aquavideo housing survived numerous tiger shark bites and thefts but I'm not sur about any octopus encounters ...

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Hi Jon

last weekend I was shooting using 3.0.7 and we set up the GPIO/Sync as follows:
Camera Sync In: General Purpose
Camera Sync Out: General Purpose (On 3.2.8 this would now be 'Recording Indicator Out')

That got both the record lever and the tally light working.

HTH

Jon,

Alas, this happens with every firmware upgrade. I'm sending the SU&C Guide by email. See the section on camera setup, which includes Paul's comments, and one more setting that is somewhat obscure (Key Action).

J-

 

[Tom Hamilton]

That's a cool video, but wonder what pawel will say about the octopus's focus pulling?

Jim Abernathy's Aquavideo housing survived numerous tiger shark bites and thefts but I'm not sur about any octopus encounters ...

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Fraternity/Maternity (Sorority??) of underwater shooters, strike a blow, I say, for AquaVideo-Gates-Achtel-Red;

Order octopus for lunch today! :smile5:

Ross, the octo-menace is rampant in your part of the world, be careful with that really expensive 3D rig mate!

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Octopus are known to occupy sewage pipes, I've heard

I actually had a funny encounter with a huge occi at Clifton Gardens (Sydney Harbour) about 15 years ago. I was alone (as usual) diving at night and laying motionless on the bottom filming an eel. I didn't see the occi when it came from the back, sat on my tank and started playing with my computer as I was completely unaware of it. It was huge - its head the size of Aquavideo housing, or even bigger, if you can imagine such a beast. After some time, I realised the pulling on my hand, turned my head, and I was face-to-face with this huge head playing with my wrist computer! I almost choked with my reg. It was funny. The occi realised the mistake too and decided to take my computer and go away from this bubble blowing "monster". But...the computer was attached to my hand, which was attached to the "monster"...it was comical to see the occi working this out and deciding through a very slow albeit coherent thinking process to give my computer back: working it's way from the computer through my hand, arm and my body.

The next night I met the same occi in the same place, but this time it had a big leatherjacket in its stomach, which you could tell by the shape of its belly. I guess it was more satisfying than my computer.

 

[paulherrin]

Octopus are known to occupy sewage pipes, I've heard

I actually had a funny encounter with a huge occi at Clifton Gardens (Sydney Harbour) about 15 years ago. I was alone (as usual) diving at night and laying motionless on the bottom filming an eel. I didn't see the occi when it came from the back, sat on my tank and started playing with my computer as I was completely unaware of it. It was huge - its head the size of Aquavideo housing, or even bigger, if you can imagine such a beast. After some time, I realised the pulling on my hand, turned my head, and I was face-to-face with this huge head playing with my wrist computer! I almost choked with my reg. It was funny. The occi realised the mistake too and decided to take my computer and go away from this bubble blowing "monster". But...the computer was attached to my hand, which was attached to the "monster"...it was comical to see the occi working this out and deciding through a very slow albeit coherent thinking process to give my computer back: working it's way from the computer through my hand, arm and my body.

The next night I met the same occi in the same place, but this time it had a big leatherjacket in its stomach, which you could tell by the shape of its belly. I guess it was more satysfying than my computer.

that's funny, sounds like a dream i had... highly entertaining, sir.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Octopus are known to occupy sewage pipes, I've heard

nice comeback shot

(but I keep telling you - sewage is the green pipe, potable is blue ;-) )