Underwater Bubble Blowers User Group Thread NEW

[C.H.Haskell]

In any event, the proof is in the work, have a look here. Audio disabled because it was composed by a very famous Italian, copyrighted of course, but the only one who could do it justice, in my view.

http://vimeo.com/31756139

Lovely work Tom!

 

[C.H.Haskell]

No.


There are a few filters to chose from. A couple of my favourite are attached below: one for macro one for wide. All three taken in less than average water clarity conditions.

That seahorse shot in the middle is incredible Pawel, nice shot.

In my experience with RED above surface, you always got better results from feeding the sensor a color balanced image vs relying to heavily on pushing it in post.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Pawel,

I hate to antagonize you, I'm too old for that stuff, especially on public forums with somebody who shares my passion for the sea and who is not threatening the sovereignty of my home soil or the well being of my family, but those shots do not a filter promote. You're obviously shooting with lights there as well and obviously warm lights which already produce super warm tones, so I don't see how this shows the effect of the filters and, though yes, the middle shot looks good, the first and last are devoid of color to my eyes. I'm really hoping you'll blow us all away soon with something of a decidedly different nature.

Mike,
You in town? Gotta come and see you soon, will give you a call sometime next week. I'm checking my old Sigma 14mm as we speak and don't see the rear filter slot? Anyway, you're right about choosing lenses with rear filter capabilities, though I would really love to use the Nikon 14-24, I am in ABSOLUTE love with that lens.

Tom,
I'm sending an FTP link in a bit.

 

[Johnny Friday]

here's a shot with no filter on Red 1 M sensor from 2008 and only a white balance & tint correction. with OLD Red software.
.....not sure what it proves----in fact nothing. Oh....and shot using some warm lights

 

[Johnny Friday]

he, he he...you will be blown away. Two housings: single camera (aluminium alloy/titanium) and all-titanium dual. I just came back from Adelaide where production line has just started. Still on target for December

Pawel.....that is some very interesting news. I'm eager to see what you have....in fact if Marketing is on your mind, can i suggest you deploy some prototype shots and specs as well as some features of your housing. As you might expect, many are lining up NOW to buy housings from the two manufacturers that have been doing so since R1....so if you plan to get any market share for all the R&D you must have done for the past years.....now is the time to display what you got.....my guess is that Come January most folks buying housings will have already done so and that market or ship as they say will have sailed.

But what you mention sounds very interesting.....your glass you have touted and some outstanding features of your new housing....can you give us some details? I'd also guess you don't have anything to worry about with Gates or Aquavideo taking design features from your housing since both of those manufacturers are in final assembly stage---well, Gates is and Aquavideo is available now. I highly doubt any of those two will try to implement your new design into their already finished housing desings....but you have a good opportunity here to blow us away with your new features and possibly capture a good percentage of the market of housings that will well in the next month.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Tom,
i completely understand what you say here, but contrary to what it might seem i am completely sincere in seeing what Pawel has to offer. Additionally if you truly read my post....i think my advise if you want to call it that are completely sound. I know Pawel has years of experience on me and my Emmy is merely a fluke based on the fact that i worked amongst a HUGE group of talented folks....and they DESERVE that award. I merely was an ant in an ant hill. Yes, i shot and did what i was told, but it was a HUGE series.....so i take that award as a mere small accomplishment and the folks really deserving know who they are. So back on topic... to Pawel's housings....personally i'm not to interested in his housing since i am sold on Gates. That said, if Pawel's glass is as good as he says it is...AND price is right, i think we ALL benefit from it. Pawel's glass he's talking about can be revolutionary---ESPECIALLY in 3d...i know for a fact that flat and standard dome ports are a thing of the past for 3d....and Pawel is definitely right about this....i have a friend shooting digital 3d for many years now and he's developed his own glass design. But he's not planning on becoming a distributor or selling as Pawel is.....So i think we'll all benefit from what Pawel has on the table......aside from mine and Pawel's heated discussions in the past....but Pawel has offered it up and i don't doubt him based on waht i know and nor is it a new or novel idea Pawel has...but he may be first to offer it up......

that said, would benefit Pawel if glass truly does what he says to make it available to us....albeit i doubt any of us would pay the price previously mentioned. But if price was adjusted for 50 to 100 units to be sold, then maybe it would work out for Pawel and buyers.

But thanks for the acknowledgement Tom.....but certainly it is nothing i will stand behind. I'm just a shooter like most of us on this forum....no better nor worse. I have my good days and my bad and i can certainly attest that there are WAY better cameramen than myself.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Pawel,

I hate to antagonize you, I'm too old for that stuff, especially on public forums with somebody who shares my passion for the sea and who is not threatening the sovereignty of my home soil or the well being of my family, but those shots do not a filter promote. You're obviously shooting with lights there as well and obviously warm lights which already produce super warm tones, so I don't see how this shows the effect of the filters and, though yes, the middle shot looks good, the first and last are devoid of color to my eyes. I'm really hoping you'll blow us all away soon with something of a decidedly different nature...

Rudi, These were taken with filters and using lights. The discussion was a) wheter or not use lights and b) wheter or not use the filters and what filters.
The shots show three different scenarios: wide macro (corals), closeup (seadragon), and wide seascape, where there is no artificial light (the shot with blue chromis over a coral reef). I personally like the colours on three of them, but I understand, discussing colours is very subjective and I accept that you do not like them. I would be interested to see what colours you like and how you achieve them.

Pawel.....that is some very interesting news. ....

Thanks Johnny, My Epic/Scarlet housings are planned to be available in December as in shipping. My understanding is that neither Gates nor Aquavideo are shipping their housings as of now. I could be wrong, though.

I intend the pricing for the housings to be the same or lower than Gates, significantly smaller, significantly lighter, all controls are titanium, and...the images will be up to 10 times sharper. What else would you like to compare?

All housings feature HD-SDI output (either external monitor or cable to surface).

All housings can accomodate internal monitor.

The aluminium (single camera housing) housing will be machined from a single billet of marine grade aluminium, hard anodized.

No Perspex (acrylic) is used in any housing. Perspex can break, chip or shatter.

The all-titanium (dual camera) housing will be very small and light weight - small enough to carry in one hand ready to dive.

All controls are manual.

The optical system allows for custom-made internal filters. The first batch of filters is already made and awaiting the rest of the system.

Everything is modular and upgradable. For example, you can configure the dual camera housing for single camera using CinePort.

The manufacturing facility in Adelaide is very impressive...certainly not possible to outsource to China and there would be very few like that in the world. I've been using it for over 10 years on various projects, some far exceeding this one in both complexity and value.

My understanding is that Gates offer 2 year warranty and suggesting that this is the most generous in the industry. I am offering 5 years on the titanium housing and 2 years on the aluminium housing.

The only thing that's slightly falling behind is the patenting process. I'm hoping it will be sorted by December.

The images are delayed a bit because of the comparative shots are taking longer than I thought to organise. But, they are coming before you see the housings.

What else would you like to know?

 

[Pawel Achtel]

That seahorse shot in the middle is incredible Pawel, nice shot.

In my experience with RED above surface, you always got better results from feeding the sensor a color balanced image vs relying to heavily on pushing it in post.

Thanks Haskell, yes indeed, you are spot on, the closer you can get to the final look the the more lattitude you have in the post. I like to colour grade, not colour correct.

 

[Johnny Friday]

What sticks out more than anything to me is your statement of images being 10x sharper....if you can truly achieve this, then that is what i'm most intererested to know....so pull the rabbit out please. Will you also have control of the camera via redmote in the housings as Gates has and i believe Aquavideo is working on a solution as well......

Anyway, good luck on this endeavor Pawel. Hope you can introduce it soon.

How will you produce the test to show the 10x sharpness? Will you compare a RED1 with Deep RED Gates and Aquavideo with R1 shot by shot with your R1 housing?

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Production has officially started on DEEP EPIC.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Production has officially started on DEEP EPIC.

Great news John!!

I hope in time to get ours delivered in time before I had back for Dubai end of the month early December!!


BTW John, should it not be called "DEEP EPIC/SCARLET-X"? I'm calling mine like so...

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Thanks Johnny for your kind words,

Will you also have control of the camera via redmote in the housings as Gates has and i believe Aquavideo is working on a solution as well......

I will not be offering a housing for the REDMote. I believe that Aquavideo and hopefully Gates will both have great solutions for REDMote.

How will you produce the test to show the 10x sharpness? Will you compare a RED1 with Deep RED Gates and Aquavideo with R1 shot by shot with your R1 housing?

All comparative shots will be done with Epic-X. We will be shooting Arri zone charts underwater from a distance of approximately 3 feet ensuring that the chart fits tightly into 5k horizontally.
We intend to shoot through flat port and through Aquatica 8" dome using Arri Master Prime 14mm lenses for comparison.
We intend to shoot the chart at f/2.8 and at f/5.6 to ensure that we do not introduce diffraction limit at higher f-stops.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Pawel,

Mike,
You in town? Gotta come and see you soon, will give you a call sometime next week. I'm checking my old Sigma 14mm as we speak and don't see the rear filter slot? Anyway, you're right about choosing lenses with rear filter capabilities, though I would really love to use the Nikon 14-24, I am in ABSOLUTE love with that lens.

Tom,
I'm sending an FTP link in a bit.

I'm back in town, had dema last week and a shoot in the dry tortugas this week. The ruby 14-24 is a great lens and of course you can get it much cheaper as the Nikon version. We have the Optitek Nikon mount but haven't bought the Nikon version yet since we plan to switch to the Canon mount. (there is a fairly solid rumor that canon will introduce their own 14-24 2.8L zoom sometime soon)

I have two of the older sigma AF 14mm f3.5 and they definitely have the filter slot. I'm told the 3.5 is actually better than dthe newer 2.8 but have no way to test that.

Do you have the 14-24 Nikon? Would love to shoot some tests with that lens.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Great news John!!

I hope in time to get ours delivered in time before I had back for Dubai end of the month early December!!


BTW John, should it not be called "DEEP EPIC/SCARLET-X"? I'm calling mine like so...

You can call it whatever you like Ketch. SCARLET, Principessa, whatever....

 

[Johnny Friday]

the Black Box with something black inside called RED

 

[Michael Hastings]

You can call it whatever you like Ketch. SCARLET, Principessa, whatever....

Hey, I was going to use Principessa!

 

[Johnny Friday]

We intend to shoot through flat port and through Aquatica 8" dome using Arri Master Prime 14mm lenses for comparison.
We intend to shoot the chart at f/2.8 and at f/5.6 to ensure that we do not introduce diffraction limit at higher f-stops.

Pawel,
you should check with Gates & Aquavideo before you make your tests since NEITHER one uses the Aquavideo 8" acrylic port (for Epic). Or at least they BOTH offer glass ports. So just to be fair for test results before posting and making assumptions. Additionally both have lens coatings. So you'll want to be sure of those things as well as WHERE the camera sits in the housing.....since it sounded like you will not be using a Gates Deep Epic or AV housing?? At any rate, i think for a fair and balanced test you should use the other manufacturers housings for a comparative test. Unless i misread your post. But that would no doubt allow for you to give some real feedback.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

You can call it whatever you like Ketch. SCARLET, Principessa, whatever....

...

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Pawel,
you should check with Gates & Aquavideo before you make your tests since NEITHER one uses the Aquavideo 8" acrylic port (for Epic). Or at least they BOTH offer glass ports. So just to be fair for test results before posting and making assumptions. Additionally both have lens coatings. So you'll want to be sure of those things as well as WHERE the camera sits in the housing.....since it sounded like you will not be using a Gates Deep Epic or AV housing?? At any rate, i think for a fair and balanced test you should use the other manufacturers housings for a comparative test. Unless i misread your post. But that would no doubt allow for you to give some real feedback.

Johnny, No one that I know has or intends to have Deep Epic or AV housing. If either Aquavideo or Gates are willing to lend us their housings for comparison, fine. I can even get my friend George to make an independent test. Of course, I can lend AV or Gates my new housing, if they are willing to post the results on their websites. LOL somehow I don't think it is going to happen, but the offer is here

The differences in resolution between acrylic and glass domes aren't that dramatic as acrylic has refractive index closer to water than glass. It just doesn't last very long (micro scratches) and goes out of shape. The difference between my optical system and a dome, in general, is substantial.

I know the exact position of the entrance pupil of the Master Prime 14mm directly from an optical designer from Zeiss in Munich. We will ensure absolutely best performance from the Aquatica dome and MP 14mm. If you can shot better, do so and post your results. The charts are available from Arri and cost about $20, it just needs to be painted clear so that it is waterproof.

Generally the difference between different domes is in contrast and distortions. CinePort, for example, is a very precise 12" dome highly optimised for contrast. It can see through poor viz water several times further than your diving mask.

 

[Ross Isaacs]

Naturally we all know that the Deep Epic housings use precise glass domes and are designed around each lens used by the owner. I intend to purchase a Deep Epic as I like everything about Gates products.