Underwater Bubble Blowers User Group Thread NEW

[Pawel Achtel]

Johnny, I don't think there is anything wrong with your colour grading. In fact, I like the colours on this image. I think it is chromatic aberration, which may be caused by a faulty lens, misalignment of the port (in any direction) or flat port (if it is a flat port). It is hard to tell, but this is why I evaluate my optics using charts

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Has one one used a Nikon 14 24 behind a dome and had it pin sharp as yet ?

I have not tested Nikon 14-24mm, but I have tested Master Prime 14mm, if this is of any indication.
The problem is not the lens. It is the dome port that causes the degradation before the image hits the lens. Can't change the laws of physics no matter what lens you use.

I'm not sure what "pin sharp" or "sharp, sharp, sharp" is. It seems to mean different things to different people. I use MTF graphs to measure the sharpness or compare it to the resolving power (MTF) of the Epic sensor for illustrative purposes.

Most good quality lenses, like the Master Primes, Leicas, Nikon 14-24, etc... will out-resolve the Epic sensor in every point of the frame. By saying "out-resolve" I mean that the MTF will be more than 0%. Some will produce better contrast at small detail (MTF) than others.

A typical 9" dome will not outresolve the Epic sensor no matter what. Therefore you can't expect even the best land lens to create sharp or flat images behind a dome. It will never happen as this is dictated by the laws of physics.

Also, as a dome port will project a virtual image just inches in front of the lens, the optical performance of a wide angle rectilinear lense IS NOT THE SAME as their performance at longer subject to camera distance. Just place a zone chart one foot in front of the Nikon 14 - 24 and tell us if it still looks "pin sharp"

 

[Johnny Friday]

Johnny,

If 16 mm is wide enough for you, then you should try the Nikon 16-35 F4 VR lens, arguably the sharpest wide zoom Nikon has ever made. It is actually sharper than the king of sharpness, the 14-24, but at 16 mm wide, you get far less distortion than at 14. It is also shorter and lighter than the 14-24, although at 5 inches long, it is, by no means, a small lens. It also accepts filters at the front, which is something most wide zooms don't do, and since the filter thread is the standard 77 mm, you could use UR Pro filters on it. Yes, the filters don't come off, but it is far easier to remove the red cast from surface footage than to not have it underwater. This is a great way for those who are undecided about the use of filters to test and see. This would be, easily, my lens of choice with a full frame sensor, and will be if we ever get one. Unfortunately, 16 mm on a S35 sensor is not wide enough for most of the things I shoot, but I cannot recommend this lens enough. It is sharp, sharp, sharp, sharp....

Rudi,
As always you have some great info. I think all i recall was the 17-35, but i did look up the 16-35 and see it's FX capabilities....As you pointed out 16mm possibly not wide enough--I'd have to agree for a "go to" lens in every day use....but that is also rather presumptuous. For some it may be enough. But i really like wider for most work. The think i did not like about the 16-35 is that it's F4 aperture....i just would like a faster lens...at least f2.8 or maybe settle for f3.5. But now that i have a rather big bucket of glass, i'm begging to notice what gets used and what stays in the case. I believe i'll stick (for now) with:
tokina 10-17
Tokina (duclos) 11-16
Sigma 15
Nikon 16-85 (just a good all round lens to get multitude of shots--not as sharp as others noted)
Nikon 14-24
Arri 14 (great lens-but i rarely use it)

 

[Johnny Friday]

Johnny, I don't think there is anything wrong with your colour grading. In fact, I like the colours on this image. I think it is chromatic aberration, which may be caused by a faulty lens, misalignment of the port (in any direction) or flat port (if it is a flat port). It is hard to tell, but this is why I evaluate my optics using charts

I don't think this is a CA problem Pawel nor an issue with virtual image..i recall with the red 1 and m sensor having numerous issues with the blue channel and having to manipulate that channel in Redcine or it may have been the other tool from RED....but specifically in the dark i would manipulate WB to drastic numbers as well as tint, then also each RGB channel. I'll speculate that this along with some strange light cast is more an issue than where the lens was in the dome port since this was only one image that had such an issue...

 

[Johnny Friday]

Shooting EPIC up at the sun is a bit of a challenge for me, I stop down all the way which is not the best and sometimes even that's not enough, at Tiger Beach so shallow it's difficult to not get burned out. How do you handle it Johnny, I usually stop the camera when shooting silhouettes, stop down and then begin rolling again, if I try to follow a animal from the bottom and it swims overhead and I get the sun in the shot my shot goes hot and without lots of care in post it's hard to bring back when the sun gets in the shot.

But your silhouette of the lemons looks great.

Frazier

Frazier:
you don't stand alone here. I've found many ways to trick the sensor to stay in the aperture range i want to be in. In this case i was shooting at 48 or 72fps and high shutter (no ND) so that i could maintain i believe an f4 to 5.6 or split--or close to that instead of 2.8....i also was at ISO 320.

I then do most of the work in post....in RCX i get close and then do secondary work in After effects...that shot however was only taken from RCX and then to photoshop...it was an easy shot to work since i did was always shooting up into the sun and exposed as best i could for the sun....so not a shot where following an animal up into the sun where we all get burned. But that said, i still like (at tiger beach--12' of water) to shoot higher speed and as closed as i can to give myself more room to manipulate that overhead shot and keyframe the highlights later in After Effects....works great and shots you would think are toast can turn out magnificent. Well, to most of us anyway....

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Johnny,

I hear you. The fact that it is F4 is something I actually quite like about this lens. Staying at F4 or narrower is one of the best ways, if not the best, to eliminate corner degradation on land lens/dome systems, and I try to stay at 5.6 or higher whenever possible. Now, this is problematic with other systems but quite achievable with R1 or Epic. I did a ton of shots on Epic at 45 meters/150 ft, the deepest I've taken that camera, and kept the aperture at F4 and though the images looked a little dark, I was able to pull back a lot of information on the shadows in post and the results had no noise and plenty of color information. For me, and this is just me and may not apply to a lot of people's needs, I never shoot any wider than F4, and with that lens, it is not even an option. I've not shot too much with the Epic, but in my findings, rating the camera at 800 ISO, you can manage at between F5.6 and F4 all the way down to about 120 ft/36 meters. Even on overcast days in turbid water. F4 and higher also allows for very quick focus, exponentially easier to snap and with much more of the field in focus than, say, at F2.8 or god forbid, 1.9. But that's just me, and you need to know how to process your images in post or you won't get away with this, but IMO, I find that that too many shooters resort to that F2.8 way too quickly. The minimum focus distance of this lens is also amazingly good for being not that wide, I've measured it at around 10", even closer than the Tokina 11-16, and that's saying something. And hey, that Nano Crystal coating gives it beautiful saturation and contrast. But I hear ya...

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Here' some work I've done recently, thought I'd share

This is actually my first home-grown, personal project in almost three years, as I've chosen to cut back a lot on work since my wife got pregnant and our daughter was born subsequently, and whatever little time I've had left was occupied by existing contracts I have. So it was good to finally get in the water to shoot my own material.

This is a teaser/proof of concept for a six-episode series with an environmental edge. Each episode focuses on a major underwater theme, such as "Night", "Reefs", "Open Sea", etc, this particular teaser being from the "Wrecks" episode. We showcase exciting locations that conform to the theme, while bringing attention to the environmental factors the locations and conditions associated with the theme present, for example, how wrecks act as artificial reefs, how some reefs are managing to come back in spite of bleaching, etc, etc. The series is conducted by my wife, a former 9-time freediving world champion, and is sponsored by a manufacturer of innovative cooling and refrigeration equipment, who are also avid environmentalists. The business model is interesting too. They will release the series in mini web episode format on a dedicated Youtube channel, as well as DVD and DR discs, and we will then negotiate TV release of a slightly modified version through the usual channels.

I wanted to shoot Epic, but as we're using both a 2D and 3D camera system for this project, the weight of the Epic system (at least those available to me at this time) made that option prohibitive, so our 2D system is our trusty Sony EX-1/Gates housing/Fathom super wide/Atomos Samurai 10 bit recorder combo, which comes in at 15 lbs lighter than Epic. The situations we encounter mandate also that we hit focus rather quickly, which was another big reason for the 1/2" sensor. Thanks to our technical partners, Logic Dive Gear for their awesome Genesis scooters, which were used as camera platforms to mount our systems. Keep in mind that the 2D and 3D housings, photo camera housing and lights we use come in at over 90 lbs, and to move all that bulk quickly and easily, the Genesis scooters were the only way to do that. Gates housings, optics and lights, without whose products, we could not adapt to the ultra challenging conditions of following fast moving animals, an equally fast free swimming human and super stiff currents. Handling, iris and focus control are all a snap with the Gates gear. And lastly, Adobe and Red Giant Software for post production goodness.

Comments welcome of course. Please watch in HD, 1080p is best as usual

 

[Johnny Friday]

Rudi,
you have a great idea and your wife--well, many will say it's difficult to have a female host, but she has something---love her accent....i'd say she may have to slow down with the words in a few places--i think her pace is a bit fast... and of couse she's a stud of as a breath hold diver...Being on screen talent is no easy task for sure....and i've watched friends take years of time in speech class and more...I think any of us opening ourselves up to criticism can make for a dangerous and delicate course....that said, i'll stop here. I think you have some well done sequences and a few shots i would drop. But again, this is all very difficult for we must know our audience and i find i am so far away from what the mainstream audience is these days. But very well done in house Rudi....cudos to you and your team and especially all the hard work that your wife must have put into this....
...did i hear she did 4min 2 secs? JEEEZus. she's not a mortal....could she be a cylon?

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

Cool stuff Rudi,
Ditto with Johnny on the pace of the narration. There needs to be a little less spoken word, give the viewer a chance to deservedly immerse themselves in the scenery too. The editing looks fine, I just found the white strobe flashes / cuts in the final ascent sequence to be a tad off putting. Crash cuts to a waiting crew scanning the surface would have been cool. Either way, a great job in challenging conditions.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Will Keir]

Wow, so she can free dive 3 minutes 30 seconds +? That's incredible, I'd like to hear a little more about this. Pretty remarkable human being. How do you train to hold your breath and swim for 3 minutes?!

Here' some work I've done recently, thought I'd share

This is actually my first home-grown, personal project in almost three years, as I've chosen to cut back a lot on work since my wife got pregnant and our daughter was born subsequently, and whatever little time I've had left was occupied by existing contracts I have. So it was good to finally get in the water to shoot my own material.

This is a teaser/proof of concept for a six-episode series with an environmental edge. Each episode focuses on a major underwater theme, such as "Night", "Reefs", "Open Sea", etc, this particular teaser being from the "Wrecks" episode. We showcase exciting locations that conform to the theme, while bringing attention to the environmental factors the locations and conditions associated with the theme present, for example, how wrecks act as artificial reefs, how some reefs are managing to come back in spite of bleaching, etc, etc. The series is conducted by my wife, a former 9-time freediving world champion, and is sponsored by a manufacturer of innovative cooling and refrigeration equipment, who are also avid environmentalists. The business model is interesting too. They will release the series in mini web episode format on a dedicated Youtube channel, as well as DVD and DR discs, and we will then negotiate TV release of a slightly modified version through the usual channels.

I wanted to shoot Epic, but as we're using both a 2D and 3D camera system for this project, the weight of the Epic system (at least those available to me at this time) made that option prohibitive, so our 2D system is our trusty Sony EX-1/Gates housing/Fathom super wide/Atomos Samurai 10 bit recorder combo, which comes in at 15 lbs lighter than Epic. The situations we encounter mandate also that we hit focus rather quickly, which was another big reason for the 1/2" sensor. Thanks to our technical partners, Logic Dive Gear for their awesome Genesis scooters, which were used as camera platforms to mount our systems. Keep in mind that the 2D and 3D housings, photo camera housing and lights we use come in at over 90 lbs, and to move all that bulk quickly and easily, the Genesis scooters were the only way to do that. Gates housings, optics and lights, without whose products, we could not adapt to the ultra challenging conditions of following fast moving animals, an equally fast free swimming human and super stiff currents. Handling, iris and focus control are all a snap with the Gates gear. And lastly, Adobe and Red Giant Software for post production goodness.

Comments welcome of course. Please watch in HD, 1080p is best as usual

 

[Will Keir]

especially all the hard work that your wife must have put into this....
...did i hear she did 4min 2 secs? JEEEZus. she's not a mortal....could she be a cylon?

Four minute dive! She's not mortal but a kind of breed half way between two worlds, that of the dolphin and man. A creature mentally sharp with a Buddhists calm, I'll be thinking about this for the days to come. Working on holding my breath and swimming for a full minute. I'm humbled and inspired to do better.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Johnny, Mark,

The final pieces will have all the narration done by a professional voice actor. As for the amount of narration, the final 22 minute episodes will have considerably less overall voiceover than this piece. At the client's request, this teaser also demonstrates the type and style of writing/narration we've envisioned, so it has more of it in more places than a larger piece would have. As for whether females make strong enough leads and all the preparation that other people undertake to be better actors, I will say that in my experience, females make as good, and in many cases better, leads as men for this type of projects. Something to do with not needing to prove anything and just getting on with the job at hand. As for speech classes and the like, my wife is a reluctant "star" at best and is in front of the cameras in this show only because the sponsor asked for her by name. She has the cred and background, a 9-time freediving world champion, to lead the show as an underwater figure. Other than that, there is nobody that moves as gracefully underwater as she does or that can tackle the kinds of things we're doing here, but that said, we're intentionally not focusing too much attention on her personally, foregoing a lot of on-camera intros and the like, choosing to mostly show her underwater. Likewise, we've chosen not to show any of the other team members, like safety divers waiting on the surface, etc, as we want to keep the viewers' attention on the environment, and not detract from that with people's appearances. This is just an artistic decision, nothing else.

Yes, the actual dive was 4:02 min, something that only a small group of divers can achieve. That said, on each of those dives, we had two surface safety divers waiting and following her every move from the surface, and another two following underwater. All four of them on scooters, and each scooter equipped with an air supply, and the underwater divers carrying also spare bottles should she need assistance. Given those capabilities, she is one of the best camera operators in our team, our go to "man" whenever we need to, say, follow a large/fast animal down to 100 ft and back to the surface several times, etc, etc, and I would rather have her with me behind the camera instead of in front of it. In my experience, freediving excellence has little to do with Buddhism, yoga, meditation and the like, and more to do with methodically and conscientiously training your body to learn to work without oxygen. And that takes years, so don't despair Will

 

[Johnny Friday]

Rudi,
On the contrary (my personal opinion) i think she makes for a very good on camera talent....Having not seen/heard narration you intend to put, i really like her voice and accent that goes with her graceful movements in the water...i like nothing more than to hear it from the one being filmed if they have the ability to speak to camera and your wife certainly has that ability. My mention of speech classses etc...were merely about my experience working with only a few professional narrators that make a career out of it and put as much work into it as we do our work......and only suggesting that there are few instances where cadence is a bit fast, but overall (and beyond free-diving) she has the ability to narrate in my opinion....and the words come well from her mouth and she speaks as she sees it...i think hard to find this ability that is good enough to make it to camera. Await to see your new cut then.....and very well done. This work is never ending and changes upon changes.....until you run out of time and then go with your last draft....keep up the long hours Rudi.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Well done Rudi, your wife is indeed very graceful underwater.

Just my opinion, it would be interesting to increase the tension of the piece by playing up the final ascent to the surface, perhaps delete mention of the safety divers. Personally, I was terrified to see her breath-holding inside the wreck corridors, all alone, lot of courage there.

As Mark suggested, perhaps an interplay between surface shots of the waiting crew?

A baying Dalmation maybe? (kidding)

 

[Frazier Nivens]

Just installed a OTS buddy phone into my housing turned gain down but input levels are too hot anyone know how to get OTS buddy phone levels down to get good audio into camera? I get audio but just too loud. Thanks

EpicX audio jack channel 1

 

[Oliver Roetz]

Frazier, might be a stupid question - but did you change your input from mic to line level? And which buddy phone do you use?

Best, Oliver

 

[Johnny Friday]

Frazier,
I just used mine with topside connection and mine seem to work just fine....No adjustments on the OtS end that i have made...I've only made them on the audio connection side of the camera.....and sound is only decent....Oh---i'm using an Explorer on my input side, but all talk units and topside are OTS.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Spotted Eagle Ray threat display, Kihei Bay, Maui, a couple of weeks ago.

These critters are normally very shy, all of the clips I have in my library until now are drive-by's only. This one, however, allowed me to follow him closely for almost three minutes before warning me off. Here is the last 30 seconds or so of the sequence.

 

[Frazier Nivens]

Frazier, might be a stupid question - but did you change your input from mic to line level? And which buddy phone do you use?

Best, Oliver

OTS Buddy Phone..

I set the EPIC audio video setting to the only available settings.

I'm trying a in line headphone volume control next, I bought one at Radio shack to see if that might work. John at OTS said I might need a circuit board to cut the line level down more than is possible with the EPIC for the best possible results, on most video cameras, I'm able to drop the audio to -12 or -18 dbs. Not with EPIC it seems. Maybe there's something I'm not doing right, still working on it to make it better..

But I got great audio today out of the topside OTS surface unit, recorded beautifully out of the audio output jack into a Zoom H4N.

Still working on it. shot a UW segment on Coral Restoration here in the Keys for CBS.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions,
Frazier

 

[Johnny Friday]

Frazier,
let us know what you discover...my receiver is actually NOT an OTS unit....i have an Explorer mounted on my Epic and then Kirby Morgan mask with all OTS gear...so mabye that is why i don't have a problem? But as you said, topside from the OTS (i think X100?) is pretty good to a record device.