Underwater Bubble Blowers User Group Thread NEW

[Mark_Thorpe]

Hey David, it's been a while mate. Hope all is well with you.

Sturdy looking rig, was that one of Peter's builds?

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[David Nardini]

Hiya Mark ... yes, thanks all is good.

Yes, Peter has been busy and we are just back from a RedSea field-test trip with the 1st prototype.
The 15mm was re-housed a while back but not worth persuing on R1 (see attached) but with Epic it's a new world ;-)

Trust you are keeping well & busy ...

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

Yes mate, switched more to surf imaging for the business direction. All is well. Will have some surprises for folks here in the coming months, all is well. Opening a photographic gallery on Bali and getting the brain ready for our first child, a son, due around November 17th, should be a hoot.

Glad to hear things are going well for you mate.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Frazier Nivens]

Interesting to read '... the first and only underwater housing that unlocks the full potential of 4k digital cinema camera and beyond ...'

Here is the rig I use that has the same optical benefits : PL mount 15mm Nikonos lens & Epic-x.

One thing I will agree with ... the resulting quality is very (very) nice.

Happy bubbling ...

Would love to see some motion imaging and still frame grabs from your system David, always nice to see actual results from the camera/housing/lens combinations.

 

[David Nardini]

Will post some over week-end.
Cheers ...

@Mark : fatherhood >>> congratulations :smiley:

 

[Johnny Friday]

3d Underwater Beam Splitter

3d Underwater Beam Splitter

Just back from 3 days at Catalina Island and exhaustive testing of the Gates 3d underwater beam splitter. This is the same system that Ross has in Australia. The one we are diving is a bit different with respect to what is inside of it. The guts inside are as follows:

3ality Atom beam splitter
(2) Epic 5k cameras
Electronic FIZ & Stereo control: allowing the user to change inter-occular as well as convergence points at will.
Denecke device for sync of both cameras & time-code jamming
(2) Kramer amplifier/distribution devices to send SDI signal to monitor topside or to divers monitor

All and all a seemingly complicated system....but after becoming familiar with the procedures it is far less complicated than what it looks.....

We shot at Catalina island this week:
Bob Cranston (camera operator)
Pier de Lespinois (Evergreen Films)
John Sullivan (Evergreen - topside stereo-from topside via 300' tether)

...some key features about this system are that once you have it put together and setup to neutral buoyancy, it's quite maneagable for one camera operator to swim the housing around as long as current is none to minimal. Bob swam the housing around for 45mins in the kelp quite easily as well as setup the camera on the tripod by himself....(tripod was actually in place before the camera system was launched)

I'll have some additional footage/stills from underwater to follow up later today.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Here you go Rudi, our little bubble blower. His fascination with diving gear is in full swing, we hope it never ends ;-)

Jeff, Rudi and all,

I am sitting outside the Haagen Dazs, Nassau catching up on real life. The last week diving the Exumas has been relaxing, fun, and eye-opening. Once again the reefs reveal how homo sapiens can screw up the planet. I hope and pray we see past our myopia, and leave something special for all future generations -- one not devoid of the ocean life so inexorably linked to our own destiny.

On a positive note, I see that China banned shark fin soup at all state functions. It's a step in the right direction.

Mark -- if you have any suggestions as to how this group can help stop the slaughter of Mantas.....?

J-

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

Great Stuff Johnny, looking forward to seeing the underwater scenes. You know me, I haven't a clue about all that technical jargon but ask to push, clear or figure out how to film mating mud hoppers then no worries.

John, I wish I could start to fathom a positive route to take for that. There are some people here raising awareness through discussions with the fishermen but the poverty out here defines everyone's lives. It decides what is fished, when and how. It's sad to see but in reality is not illegal. The exploitation of the Oceans here leaves little hope that even the fishermen will have prey enough in years to come. The mentality is very much 'Here and Now'

It's not all swaying palm trees on the beaches of Bali:

Juvenile Sharks

Butchered Dolphin

These were taken on a tourist beach in the Jimbaran region where a small fish market also operates. There is no element of the Indonesian thought process that suggests any consideration that this may not be what tourists want to see on a popular beach. Frustrating to say the least!

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Interesting to read '... the first and only underwater housing that unlocks the full potential of 4k digital cinema camera and beyond ...'
Here is the rig I use that has the same optical benefits : PL mount 15mm Nikonos lens & Epic-x.
One thing I will agree with ... the resulting quality is very (very) nice.
Happy bubbling ...

well, the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence, so technically speaking my statement was correct in the absence of yours

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting rig. Good to see other people making an effort to get high quality images.

I would be very interested how you managed to covnert the Nikonos to PL. I must say this never crossed my mind, so kudos for thinking outside the box. I can see many technical challanges that you needed to overcome.

I'd be very interested to see how you managed to solve some of the technical problems: sealing the lens against the housing, focus and aperture gears, mount conversion, etc...and, of course the images, which I'm sure are excellent.

Well done.

...some key features about this system are that once you have it put together and setup to neutral buoyancy, it's quite maneagable for one camera operator to swim the housing around as long as current is none to minimal...

That's too funny.:smilielol5: Glad your sense of humour is back.




BTW, I'm happy to report that American Cinematographer expressed interest and will publish an article about DeepX shortly.

Also, RED is preparing a nice surprise too. More information soon.

 

[Ron Lagerlof]

You know, Pawell, we met at CineExpo in LA and I found you to be an engaging and charming person, intelligent and passionate about your product and out craft. What I dislike is this notion that the Nikonos system is the only system capable of resolving 4K/5K images. I shot stills for years using the Nik V and my lenses, framers - "guesstimating" focal distance and framing. I later switched to a Subeye camera which with an adapter allowed me to shoot with Nikonos RS 20-35 zoom and the 13mm (arguably the best water contact lens ever) and which also allowed through the lens viewing and focusing. I can't even imagine going back to a system where I have to guess and frame arbitrarily. More to the point, if there were a way to use my my Nikonos RS lenses I would embrace that in a heartbeat. In the meantime I am perfectly happy to be able to dive and capture amazing images with the technology available to me. Peace, Ron

 

[Ross Isaacs]

We just returned from our big 3D expedition out into the Coral sea. Deep Atom performed extremely well as did our 3D support crews. Here are a few highlights from the trip. We shot some extraordinary 3D footage.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Those stills are straight to the painful place Mark, poignantly beautiful, and very sad. Have you published them anywhere?

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

Hey Tom,
I blogged about the shark related issues and shared that out to a social following of 100k+ but didn't get anything into the mainstream.

I took the images the bring home that message of Bali's impoverished fishermen and their families have to get by somehow. It's sad to see but in reality I can't see a way to change it. The country is not going to change it's ways any time soon so people continue to pretty much do what they like, when they like without a shred of thought for the impact both on the marine resources and eventually on their livelihoods.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

... I later switched to a Subeye camera which with an adapter allowed me to shoot with Nikonos RS 20-35 zoom and the 13mm (arguably the best water contact lens ever) and which also allowed through the lens viewing and focusing. I can't even imagine going back to a system where I have to guess and frame arbitrarily. More to the point, if there were a way to use my my Nikonos RS lenses I would embrace that in a heartbeat. In the meantime I am perfectly happy to be able to dive and capture amazing images with the technology available to me. Peace, Ron

Hey Ron,

It was great to catch up at CineGear.

I absolutely agree with you that the RS 20-35 is a lovely lens. There is currently work going on in order to assess if it is possible to come up with a smart lens adapter to fit it into DeepX and 3Deep housings. It looks that there is enough physical space, just working on the protocol to control the aperture and focus. Just the ability to zoom would be a great feature as this is not something that works very well with domes due to shift in the position of the entrance pupil. For your information, this is currently high priority development that we are working on.

The RS 13mm looks amazing for stills - as you say, arguably the best water contact lens. But I'm not so convinced about the fisheye look for motion pictures as the primary wide angle lens. When in motion, fisheye lenses exaggerate the distortion. You do not see that distortion on a still picture as easily. I don't always like that look when in motion and I find it more of a special purpose lens.

My perfect wide angle lens is more moderate: 70 - 90 degrees. The reason for this is because I like to "fly" the camera a lot, pan and track, revealing the scenery rather than capturing it all at once (like with a still picture). Other film makers like to lock the camera and, I agree, a wider lens would be more suitable for such shots. Totally personal and artistic choice. Howard Hall did many locked off or static shots, for example.

I use 12mm Sea & Sea fisheye on DeepX, which is very sharp lens. But, I use the Sea&Sea 12mm sparingly.

I would prefer to use the RS 13mm over the 12mm Sea&Sea, but the frequency with which I need a fisheye does not warrant me to invest in development of Nikonos RS mount for the rare occasion of shooting fisheye. Also, terrestial fisheye lenses do not suffer significant image degradation when placed behind a dome, giving more choices to everyone, including an option to use Aquatica Aqualens with Nikon still lenses on DeepX.

Then, there is stereo 3D, when you can't use fisheye at all. Our brains are unable to fuse two distorted images very well (which is also a problem for flat port too, just in the opposite direction). We need perfect rectilinear lenses with no distortions or image curvature for good 3D.

There are some other exciting developments that are in the works for both DeepX and 3Deep housings.

Happy shooting.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Hey Mark,

I see the livelihood issue as an intractable problem, the only solution there is to transition local fishermen to an eco-tourism economy, as has been done at Isla Mujeres in Mexico with the whale sharks. Tourism dollars from those animals now far exceed any quick n' dirty cash they may have made selling whale shark meat and fins to the Asian markets. And it is not only very sustainable, but producing ever greater profits for the locals, happy to say.

The key is education, in a very determined sense, old habits die hard. And beer, very persuasive tool that, greases otherwise squeaky wheels .

Wanton, careless, and senseless destruction is entirely another story, see attached frame grab. After running into this by chance one day, I could not keep silence anymore. Spawned a Red Sea documentary short (at great personal expense), played at several high-end eco-film festivals around the world; the reaction, at least I think, from people who saw it, pushed a few folks into directions they had not before considered.

I think you're in an excellent position to make some very meaningful changes in Bali, along the lines described above. It's going to be a huge effort, if you need my help in any way, at your service.

Tom

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

Hey Tom,
Kudos to yourself and the efforts as described above. I can't take something like this on at the moment. We are developing a part of our business that will be very interesting to certian elements of this community and will be revealed in due course. Opening a photographic gallery and the baby on the way means I am both stretched financially to the limit and also focused on developing the core elements of liquidmocean.

It's not a case of sweeping the issues under the mat but I simply am not in a position to do this at this time. The problems here are not going to go away, there is no wildlife enough left to sustain an ecotourism structure as you say. If we were talking about a localized fishing community that could be one option to look at but here in Bali there are convergence locations of fishing communities that range from Bali, Lombok, Java, Sumatra and farther afield. There would have to be country wide ecotourism projects founded in order to stop the current emptying of the Oceans here at a rate that just seems mind boggling. Just the location I go to to shoot these images must support around 1000 families. There are about 12 such locations similar to this around Bali, and that's just one island out of the estimated 17,000 in Indonesia. That kinda brings the scale of things into perspective.

Maybe a great project if there was a budget available to document and produce but that's not my priority at this time.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Nature Conservancy does such work.

I was part of their biodiversity survey (RAP) in Raja Ampat back in 2002. It was after this survey when the area was recognised as having the biggest diversity of fish (and most likely invertebrates) in the World and gained international attention. Nature Conservancy developes such sustainable conservation programs. You may find a lot of supportive people there, maybe even willing to provide funding towards initiatives leading to more sustainable management of natural resources in this area. They may even fund or help marketing your picture gallery, film or other initiative. Worth contacting, IMO.

BTW, I was there on my first underwater shoot with my HDCAM rig (footage was later acquired by National Geographic). Indeed: a very stark contrast between the incredible diversity and destruction of natual environment.

 

[Mark_Thorpe]

I've been hugely vocal in my conservation drives over the past years. For personal reasons I prefer now to make those efforts in a much more private way. I will let the entities who have taken the time and effort to set themselves up administratively to tackle the issues, I support some of them with small financial donations when I can.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

John,

Good to see you took some time off to get wet. I am dismayed at your findings in the Bahamas. I've always held some hope for these islands, what with a relatively small local population that is relatively well educated and understands the concepts of preservation and selective fishing. Furthermore, Bahamians prefer diets not based on fish (chicken reigns supreme in their tastes) however much fish they consume, and are held back by stringent fishing regulations. I guess direct damage comes from the thousands of anglers that prowl those waters, as well as from the global culprits like acidification, warming, etc. I usually take a 2-3 week trip around the Exumas come November, but I'm a little hesitant this year as I would have to bring my little girl, and crossings are still a little hairy at that time of the year.

As for contributing to the common cause of raising awareness, I think those of us here that produce a lot of content that is their own, or that have some input into the profile of the material they shoot, it is important that we strive to give our material some sort of ecological angle all the time. I always get offered 5-6 ideas for documentary series every year, given that my company also manages several current and previous freediving world champions, including my wife, and we invariably get pitched ideas about extreme sport docs and the like, and unless we can include a message of conservation within the main theme, we refuse the option. You'd be amazed at how many companies decline our requests to include 60-90 seconds of conservation messages within a 21 minute program, it is disheartening to say the least.

Jeff, Rudi and all,

I am sitting outside the Haagen Dazs, Nassau catching up on real life. The last week diving the Exumas has been relaxing, fun, and eye-opening. Once again the reefs reveal how homo sapiens can screw up the planet. I hope and pray we see past our myopia, and leave something special for all future generations -- one not devoid of the ocean life so inexorably linked to our own destiny.

On a positive note, I see that China banned shark fin soup at all state functions. It's a step in the right direction.

Mark -- if you have any suggestions as to how this group can help stop the slaughter of Mantas.....?

J-

 

[Johnny Friday]

REPEAT from thread located at: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?83013-3D-Underwater-Gates-3ality-Kelp-Forest-Filming

...after over a year and a half in development, the Gates & 3ality 3d underwater camera system has hit the water. Further testing is being made locally by Bob Cranston to confirm depth rating and develop underwater procegers of this new underwater 3d system.
To much the delight of myself, i've had the pleasure of working with John Ellerbrock and Bob Cranston who have taken this idea from design to splash down. I've come aboard in the past month and assisted Bob with deploying the rig for the second time into the kelp beds at Catalina Island. This is quite a technical achievement and once you understand the Atom rig itself, you then realize the complications of operating, setting alignment and stereo as well as, and most importantly the quality of 3d and various shots you can achieve.
....Bob and John both will have more to say about these and I'll assume they'll chime in on this. I can say that 3d is new to me and in fact quite easy to understand after shooting and working with the files. Like much other camera work you get it when you have enough hands on time.

Recently we made a trip out to Catalina from July 17-20 and began shooting this rig from Bob's boat. Two of those three days we spent on learning alignment and making the rig more efficient (cabling/monitoring) . Keep in mind this is a completely new rig for us and most of the stereo-ographers working with the Atom rig can do this practically blind-folded. Divers need a few extra tries at it. That said, mission accomplished and alignment is quite easy once one has made thirty plus tries at it. I might mention that alignment is slightly different using the underwater Gates Controllers so this is another learned procedure that is not standard based on the 3ality controls....but, it is similar.

Camera Setup currently inside of the Gates Deep Pulsar Atom (DPA) rig:
*Epic cameras
*Denecke sync device
*Kramer video amplifiers
*3ality FIZ control (w/hayden motors)
*Stereo (convergence & I.O.) underwater hand controller
*FIZ (focus, iris, zoom) underwater hand controller
*External (underwater housed) Transvideo 12" monitor

LENSES: just about any configuration of lens can be used on this rig. We chose to use Nikon Mount with Zeiss 18mm Prime lenses on this shoot, while most seem to prefer the Angenieux 16-42 PL lens combination to cover wide as well as medium work.

...We focused on very specific shots of animal behavior on a tripod 90% of the time and then did a few shots free swimming the housing around in the kelp. Shooting 3d and capturing good 3d is not one and the same. But on sticks underwater you have a number of better choices and options to accomplish this task underwater. This already a tried and tested method based on success by underwater legends like Howard Hall and Bob C. from their previous accomplishments.

...At the moment more testing and learning is in order and happening in California to perfect the procedures as well as the supporting equipment. Bob Cranston is working on further perfecting the ability to put this rig in action quickly and efficiently and perfecting those techniques to work in the field. We are training now and next few weeks on just those tasks and Bob is training other camera operators so that they can understand how to set up the rig and shoot the rig as well as maintain the rig in the field. I can say that it's a "required" course for anyone expecting to shoot this rig and certainly a pre-requisite for purchase or rent.

The footage we recently shot is being processed in-house and will soon be available for download on the Gates, Bob Cranston and Baja Production web sites. I'll also post a notice on this thread to when the download is available. You will be able to download a side by side promo of the 90 second promo we intend to make.

For more information on Rental, Purchase or Training: www.digital3Dsea.com <http://www.digital3Dsea.com>

PHotos attached here: