Underwater Bubble Blowers User Group Thread NEW

[jim kozmik]

Hay Perrone I am a certified cave diver.

Hay Perrone I am a certified cave diver.

Out of curiosity are there any cave divers here in the group?

We have done 4 cave shows in last 15 years and will be doing new show sometime in march 2011 in Mexico on rebreathers only...Also just Back from my favorite dive island Caymans with a crew of 4..we were there waiting for the KITTAWAKE us navy ship to arrive and film it for our Nat Geo Shipsinkers 2show..but the towboat broke down and we had to come home for xmas..hopefully back in January for sinking..Kozzzzzzzzz

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Hey Rudi,
Thanks...i guess we all dream of a first in nat.hist. and underwater. but i'm sure someone has shot them in large numbers some place. Seems like there is very little that is untapped nowadays other than good stories--although the good stories seem to be what is in short supply.

Not sure about that Johnny, life underwater always seems to surprise, when you least expect it.

 

[Johnny Friday]

that image looks familiar.....i think i saw that in 3d

 

[Johnny Friday]

Here's another memory from a shipwreck not far from those cormorants.
It's a busy frame. Graded with redcolor2 and redgamma2....so it shows a bit unsaturated, but nice for grading later.

 

[Johnny Friday]

In The Beginning - The VX1000

In The Beginning - The VX1000

This is purely a nostalgic post.....as i sit here grading some images for a show..

I'm sure all you underwater bubble blowers remember the DIGITAL REVOLUTION....on tape. Not my first camera, but certainly the one that i remember the most with digital post in house.

I'm sure i'm not the only one that remembers this work horse. Made me a handfull of cash and was the beginning of a digital stock that keeps building.

Stills from FCP....while shooting my Z1U and my buddy Alfredo shooting his VX1000.
"DON'T LAUGH" He just got another commission check this week from Ocean Footage for some Humboldt Squid Behavioral Footage we shot back i believe in 2000. That camera still is generating some of us $$.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Whale Sharks at Isla Socorro. These are frame grabs from the panasonic hvx200---not a camera i really like since you really have to master (through trial and error) the best settings in the menu for black pedestal and a few others....so based on water conditions you'll have a few settings. Otherwise your footage can turn our very grainy.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Just thought I would tip the bubble blowers to this other thread, and my response.

Are there any companies out there looking at making plans for a underwater housing for the Epic?

Jon: I will definitely be making housings for Epic. I may be in line for an Epic-M but even if not I'm Stage 2 SN206 so should have mine fairly early. I made the first RED1 housing using Gibby's serial number 8 just a few weeks after the first cameras were delivered - and may be able to do the same with the Epics. I've already got a basic housing built, just need to finalize lens height and make the frontplate. Size will be about 9" diameter (same as our RED1 housing - which was the most compact- but much shorter.) Going much smaller in diameter, even if possible, wouldn't save much as far as volume and would limit lens options - although I'm sure we'll make some supercompact versions for special use. As far as price, since it's late I'll just copy a post from another thread a little while ago.

Hi Michael,

Well, if you tested the Sigma and you like the footage then i have no doubt...
As soon as i have my Epic camera will contact you for underwater housing. I know it's too early to ask, but more or less is there any info about the prise of the housing for the Epic and Scarlet?

Peter

About the same as RED1 ~$6500 PVC or $8500 Alum - with the addition of about $1000-1200 for the REDMOTE control (maybe in a separate box).

May make a glass dome standard which normally would raise the cost by about $1700 but if I make all of them might get the added cost down to only about a little over half of that.

Now that Jim has given us a fairly clear idea of when we will have SN206, I will probably start taking deposits for places in line later this month (January).

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Happy New Year,

GATES is already working on DEEP EPIC. Time-line is dependent on EPIC camera deployment.

At the request of several customers we are making every effort to re-use DEEP RED. However there are always tradeoffs to this approach, most notably size. Functionality usually suffers, too -- whenever we try to fit a camera into a shell for which it was not designed there are compromises.

In either case, you can expect it to be a GATES in every way.

J-

 

[Stephen Strangways]

At the request of several customers we are making every effort to re-use DEEP RED.

The company I work for is in this situation: they own a DEEP RED, and are in line for Stage 2 to get an EPIC and keep their RED ONE. Right now, they travel with two RED ONEs, using one on land and having it as a backup to the underwater camera.

It would be great if you were able to make an "EPIC adapter" that would mount the EPIC at the right lens height and distance in the DEEP RED, and hold the RED RAM and RED Brick. That way, we could continue using the RED ONE underwater, but switch to an EPIC for land use, and know that with a few "adapter parts" we could put that EPIC in the DEEP RED in case anything ever happened to the RED ONE.
Even if we weren't able to access every control on the EPIC, just knowing we could start/stop the camera and adjust a few exposure settings would be enough to make the EPIC a viable backup camera.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Even if we weren't able to access every control on the EPIC, just knowing we could start/stop the camera and adjust a few exposure settings would be enough to make the EPIC a viable backup camera.

Hell no...we want access to EVERYTHING. That's how we expect GATES to roll. all or nothing!

 

[David Quinn Carder]

JUST heard this.WES taught me my first CAVE DIVE in 1974..great guy..little wild...WARM CLEAR WATERS IN HEAVEN FOR YOU WES..LOVE YA..JIM KOZMIK BLUE REALM TV SERIES

He was a friend of my grandfather and I had dinner with him when I was younger… he had some crazy stories to tell and was a great guy. As sad as the news was, at least he died doing what he loved. R.I.P.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Hell no...we want access to EVERYTHING. That's how we expect GATES to roll. all or nothing!

Since RED never made an R1 remote - control of all the functions was difficult.

REDMOTE for the Epic will make full control fairly easy - similar to what we had for Betacam, HDCAM, Varicam housings over the years. Full control of any function the REDMOTE addresses - which should be pretty much everything.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

So, manual control of the RedMote via pushbuttons on the housing? Or a separate electronic grip?

 

[Michael Hastings]

So, manual control of the RedMote via pushbuttons on the housing? Or a separate electronic grip?

Hi, Tom - Merry Christmas/Happy New Year.

Pushbuttons - similar to what we do on the dslr housings - (see photo) and rotary controls for knobs either on the housing or with the Redmote in a separate small housing. If Red provides a physical cable connection the housing could be moved anywhere. If it is only wireless then may have to be right next to the housing (unless there is a way to send the wireless signal through some sort of antenna wire)

Point is, in the past we have always been able to control all of the functions of highend cameras via direct physical control of the handheld remotes, and REDMOTE will give us this capability as well.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

And a Happy and successful New Year to you as well Mike.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

...and REDMOTE will give us this capability as well.

Mike,

I think a small machined housing for Redmote would be a big hit. I'd be very interested and, I'm sure, many others would be too. :thumbsup:

 

[Stephen Strangways]

Hell no...we want access to EVERYTHING. That's how we expect GATES to roll. all or nothing!

I'm all for an all singing all dancing full control DEEP EPIC housing, but in the shorter term, a modification of the DEEP RED to support the EPIC would be very useful for my team.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

the thing is, Epic's almost perfectly square shape allows for a much smaller, easier to handle housing than the RED ONE's housings, both Gates' and Aquavideo's, and it would be terrible to waste that gain in size/weight/buoyancy. You'll still need somewhat large domes up front to accommodate PL lenses and/or large wide angles in still mounts so shaving as much bulk from the housing would be fundamental. It would be nice of Gates to offer a retroffiting kit of sorts for Deep Red, but ultimately, they would do well in designing a new housing from scratch, which would be the same housing for Scarlet. Scarlet will do quite well, especially if one of those beautiful Fathom ports gets made for the fixed lens 2/3 Scarlet, that would certainly sell VERY well. So Gates probably needs to concentrate all their efforts on an Epic/Scarlet housisng, not undercut their possible future sales by fixing existing housings for other cameras. That is, of course, what I would do, but last time I checked I don't own Gates.

All this, in my opinion, points to a very clear and present problem that RED ONE owners will face within the next 8-12 months. By the end of 2011, RED ONE bodies will be selling for under $10K, and probably more realistically at around $8K. RED ONE is still an amazing camera but its lack of HDRx™™ will really mean is falling out from most major productions basically overnight, so this drastic drop in price is a very real prospect that, however unfair, most R1owners contemplating a move to Epic/Scarlet should consider very seriously. Likewise, all these rather expensive accessories like the Deep Red housing, certainly a bargain for what it provides, but nevertheless expensive at over $20K for a camera selling for less than half of that, will suddenly become difficult items to move. I think R1 housing owners should be prepared to either stay with their existing configurations, assign them to an inexpensive rental set up or accept selling them at substantial discounts. Given the fact that Epic and Scarlet are basically identical in size, and that their shape is among the easiest to build a housing around, I foresee other companies besides Aquavideo and Gates offering housings for these cameras, so pricing for the new housings will perhaps be a bit more competitive than it is now. Just food for thought.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Rudi,
I think Gates will provide both avenues for R1 owners. True, many that own the Deep Red and have $20+K invested may want to retrofit the housing for Epic. BUT i would not say it has much to do with the epic shooting better underwater or HDRX mode. That i think will have very little use underwater and in some cases may be nice for a tripod shot in a kelp forest with sun beaming down...but those are so few cases. I would expect that R1MX has a few years life in it for underwater shooting.

That said, there are those that will want or NEED the smaller package just for the fact that it's getting harder and harder to lug around so much weight in the airports and all over the world. And Gates will do what Gates does which is produce a rugged and fully loaded model with all the bells and whistles. Price will be up there for what you get, but those working professionally i'm sure will have a need and price is not the determining factor here (well to some point). I think that as usual others like AquaVideo will be first to market with a tube housing that does not require as much engineering and machining that will go into the Gates. These housings will serve another market as they usually do. First to market and quick access to putting a new camera in the water with basic controls....and in many cases not all of us need full menu access underwater that Gates provides. But each will have their niche to fill.

That said, I'll likely hold onto my R1MX and housing till until the last minute and a new Epic housing is on the market. I've considered the prospect of rehousing my epic in my DeepRed, but i think it makes no sense just for the pure sake of shedding the weight and bulk of moving it around the world.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Johnny,

So we are basically in agreement. My assessment of the RED1 going down in price is not related to its functionality underwater, I also agree that besides bulk, the R1 provides stunning footage and not having HDRx will not hurt it as much, but to how it will fare compared the newer RED offerings topside. The Epic S (old Scarlet S35) will offer basically the same features as the R1 PLUS HDRx for around $12K. There is no way the R1 will sell over $10K once the Epic S is out there. And once both Epic flavors and the Scarlets hit the market in the thousands, then R1 should drop towards that $8K figure I was guesstimating. However off my estimations could be, it will be hard to resell housings and other accessories for cameras that now cost around 1/3 of said accessory, which is why I was thinking that current R1/housing owners should either continue using their gear and enjoy great quality images, sell now before it depreciates too much, or sell it for the heavily discounted price the market will bear later on. Case in point, the Amphibico F-900 housing that used to cost upwards of $55K at the peak of that camera's dominance nowadays sells for under $15K. I know, I had one and had the hardest time selling it. I think this will be inevitable.
Another thing to keep in mind is that with the advent of Redmote, perhaps the need for housings that allow access to every important camera function manually will be negated, which could/should result in housings that are easier and cheaper to manufacture, and hopefully cheaper to buy, but also might encourage other builders who traditionally don't have the resources or construction philosophy as, for example, Gates, to take a go at building a housing if not for the Epic, definitely for the Scarlet, so options could be more plentiful and price ranges more spread out.
I, for one, am waiting for the Epic so that I can once again dive with a small, manageable housing as we used to on the golden days of mini DV