Underwater Bubble Blowers User Group Thread NEW

[Amund Lie]

WOHOO!!!
I have just received my Gates two days ago, and off it went abroad to Finland for a shoot with Teemu Liakka before I had a chance to test it myself. What a beauty that fat little housing is
Now I can't wait to get my Duclos 11-16 too, the match should be perfect, at least according to what Johnny says here. Teemu reports excellent results with the UltraPrime 20 and 14 behind the dome, albeit the 14 a tad softer. Any similar experience Johnny?

 

[Johnny Friday]

Hey Amund,
You'll definately like the 11-16. BUT make sure that you have Gates make you the NEW port extender for that particular lens. I wish i could tell you if it will dramatically improve the image, but i can't say because i have not yet used the new port extender. I'll try to reach Gates this week when i have a moment and see about getting a hold of one for testing and post the results, but that may be a few weeks to a month. But be sure i'll do that. If you are shooting with the 18-50 Port Extender, you'll have best results at the 16mm side of zoom unless you plan to do some cropping.

As for the ultra primes vs. std. primes---you bet ya. But $30k vs $4-$7k is a substantial bite. I'll rent the ultra primes for paying projects and use my std. primes for stock. you'll surely notice the difference side by side comparison, but if shooting for TV, then forget it, std's arri zeiss primes will be excellent as well as plethora of nikon lenses. You'll be very happy with the Duclos i can tell you. i did recently bump into some old lenses for $100 to $175 used that resulted in INCREDIBLE results. old 60's lenses. Another WoW affect.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

RED in Turkey in December for Freediving World Record

RED in Turkey in December for Freediving World Record

Fellow underwater shooters,

This December 27th, in Bodrum, Turkey, my wife will be attempting her 9th freediving world record by plunging to over 120 meters/400 ft on one breath of air. Our video team will be filming on HDV and XDCAM cameras to fulfill our commitments of images to TV stations and sponsors, and also because those cameras allow us to use small enough housings to put at every position along her descent path, down to the goal depth. But yes, we all know that an EX-1 is not a RED, and something as unique as a world record deserves to be shot with the best. So I toyed with the idea of making it a full RED gig, using the RED we have access to plus renting a few others, but the pricing on the housings and accessories has made this option difficult to justify within our budget parameters. Also, as I am her trainer and dive organizer, I cannot take time to be in charge of, and cater to the needs of, a RED production team, with all the requirements that using professional cine gear implies as opposed to the run-and-gun simplicity of HDV cameras. A world record dive event is something very complex and delicate and most resources, attention and efforts need to be focused on the diver and her safety team.

BUT, I cannot for the life of me, imagine having her do something so awesome and not have it on RED, so here's my idea/proposal to underwater RED operators:
- Bring yourself, your RED, your housing and your dive gear to Turkey and film the record dive, and the preceding training dives.
- I can cover your accommodations, meals, local transportation and in most cases, airfare to and from Turkey (depending where you are). So basically, you come to Turkey on my nickel to shoot this event on RED.
- Nice vacation, but you are a professional, you need to make money. I understand and respect that, but that is what I can offer you. The opportunity to shoot something unique (I assure you not many people will have images of a human being disappearing into the blue immensity like a rocket in their demo reel), the chance to see a great country for free, and the chance to add to your stock portfolio some amazing images. Yes, you can go around in your non-diving days and off hours and shoot a ton of great images, you have amazing locations in that part of Turkey, including two of the seven wonders of the ancient world, etc. Again, this can either be a nice paid vacation for you, or if you are entreprenurial, a chance to augment your portfolio as well, but those are the incentives I can offer, nothing else.
- Images rights. We would have complete rights to everything you shoot, without restrictions, think of it as work for hire. But you can use the images for personal promotion (demo reel and the like) without limitations and if you want to place the footage with a stock footage agency, we would enter an agreement whereby we split whatever income that footage generates. That pertains only to diving/record specific footage, anything else you shoot while there is yours to do with as you please of course.
- If anybody is interested, you'll have to submit to me a list of your film gear, i.e: housing, ports, lenses, etc to see if it matches the quality/scope of what we need to achieve, as well as a resume and diving credentials/certifications to ascertain your experience underwater. I cannot tell you how many times we've run across people with state of the art film and video gear that sucked as divers and even compromised the outcome of the operation with their substandard skills and lack of safety protocols. This record is a tightly run operation and EVERYBODY that goes in the water HAS TO BE a very, ver, very good diver, whether part of the video or safety teams. Likewise, you'll have to pass a 5 hour course designed to instruct you on how to act while being a member of a diving record team. This course is free and will be conducted upon arrival in Turkey.
- The training period runs from December 10th to the 27th, when the record will be attempted. For this offer to make sense financially for me, I will need you there for at least 10 days, and even better, the whole time. Anything less than that would not justify the expense.

So there it is, let me know if anybody is interested in taking me up on this offer. It is not the most seductive offer financially speaking but it is far from being the worst thing you could do, so I don't expect those who are perennially busy with paying gigs to jump at it, but someone with a bit more flexibility and time on their hands might find it interesting. Like I said, let me know.

 

[David Ellison]

If I could dive I'd totally game for this!

 

[Johnny Friday]

Rudi,
your offer is possibly appealing to a few folks. most however don't know what paying gigs are coming up that far off. However, that said, some other items that come to mind to think about and some questions for you are:

1. Production insurance - for gear/operator - will this be available & from moment departing home location to return?
2. Customs/Carnet: travel with gear from USA that is....is the carnet cost covered & any customs work with Turkey--in fact what does Turkey require of a foreigner travelling to work professionally with pro gear etc... importation/work permit etc...

*those were my two main questions as i deal with them on every shoot out of country.


**yes, you bring up a good point about many folks that would jump at the opportunity to do this but with little or out of dive shape experience and or camera experience. Especially with RED. I do however have to disagree with you about the RED as THE camera for this shoot.....not to mean it is not a good camera, but more that the smaller EX1 and P2 and the like are great cameras for these type shoots. In fact would probably be my first choice a half dozen EX1's. That said, adding extra cameras jsut gives you that many more options of course.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Johnny,

Maybe I wasn't clear, but we will get the bulk of the work done with those smaller cameras, I'll have about 3-4 EX-1's there and around 5-6 HG20's in small housings to attach to helmets on the bottom divers and the freediver's sled itself. Still, I would love to have some 4K images from the dive, even if I'm not counting on the RED as a working camera but more as a wonderful addition to provide some high quality mementos of the event.

As for insurance and the like. No, I cannot cover insurance, whoever takes me up on this offer should have insurance and be sure to be covered by it in Turkey. Likewise, I can cover baggage fees for camera gear on the flight to Turkey (without insuring it), but that's it. There will be no duties or work permit related issues when entering Turkey as you wouldn't be "officially" working while there, so the operator would come as a tourist. I will have a special clearance from the government guaranteeing that anyone coming to film the record won't be bothered by customs or immigration at the airport, but other than what I promised in the first e-mail, I cannot cover anything else. I don't need the RED footage to comply with my obligations for the event, I just want it for keepsake, thus this is all that I can offer, and I fully understand if somebody does not like my offer

 

[Rudi Herbert]

...and yes, for those who've asked, I will have nitrox, trimix and a deco station with multiple 02 whips, BUT any operator would have to conform to a pre-established plan and assume a previously agreed upon position, not dive however deep or long he wishes.

 

[Johnny Friday]

rudi, what about sofnalime?

 

[Rudi Herbert]

rudi, what about sofnalime?

Johnny,

You've asked enough questions to make me think that you're interested and the prospect of having Johnny Friday there would be exciting, but it seems like I have to keep giving you the answers you don't wanna hear No, none of my people are diving on rebreathers, so I have no sofnolime, we're sticking with the somewhat more predictable, easier to maintain and less demanding open circuit, but hey, I have enough trimix to even inflate balloons at will, and if that's not a deal sealer, I don't know what is...

 

[Amund Lie]

Rudi,

I'm interested.

However, the split on selling stock footage is a bit hard to swallow. I could come along on a deal where I get to keep certain shots for me to sell, to at least cover a basic salary for my time. By shots I mean some freediving shots.
After all we are not film students any more, and "paid vacations" are not as tempting as they were 20 years ago. But I understand your situation, and that is why it would be nice to acquire some unique shots that could earn us a buck or two. Lazing around and doing general shots of a Turkish resort is something I can do any day

What about shooting a Discovery / Nat Geo or similar special show? Or a film for theatrical release? Make the RED teams do the shots for such a show? Deep freediving has been covered before, but not in 4K.

That way we could agree on a deferred fee to be collected once the show is financed or broadcast/released in theatres. I am also a director and editor, and could aid in the process of producing a special programme parallel to the actual freediving event. Shots will of course be available for other use at the event, but the main focus of the RED teams would be to shoot for a separate show.

I think that if you want professionals to with gear worth +/- $100K and many years of experience to come along, you need to tempt them with a little more than free lunch.
I don't have a problem with deferred fees or revenues down the line, but I need to know beforehand that doing this will generate some money some day.

Amund

 

[Amund Lie]

For the record I have worked on an AIDA event in the Caymans in 2005, with Kirk Crack of Performance Freediving, Mandy Rae Cruickshank and Martin Stepanek. And my experience is that there are indeed a number of challenges to shooting around such an event, particularly to not ruin a record attempt or jeopardizing other people working in the water.
I would think that using rebreathers would be ideal for the camera crews, considering the long wait times and the disturbance created by bubbles anywhere near the axis of descent?

 

[Rudi Herbert]

However, the split on selling stock footage is a bit hard to swallow. I could come along on a deal where I get to keep certain shots for me to sell, to at least cover a basic salary for my time. By shots I mean some freediving shots.

Don't know about that, I've had bad experiences with it in the past. Without going into much detail, I've had a couple of photographers whom we invited to two of our record events, just because they begged to come as observers and they were/are very famous in the underwater world. In fact, given how famous they were, they assured us they would get a few articles published in the customary trade magazines, so we financed their trip to our event, and they spared no expense in treating themselves lavishly on our penny. Low and behold, no articles ever got published, but down the line they ended up selling a couple of shots for a lot of money, of which we saw not a single penny. the first time, we had a verbal agreement to split whatever money came from the sale of those images but of course he didn't give a damn about it, and the second time, we indeed signed a contract and the guy still sold the images, only this time they were used on a very ugly article that painted freediving on a terrible light. We sued them and got some compensation but it was so not worth the trouble. So I don't know, I'd have to think about it...

After all we are not film students any more, and "paid vacations" are not as tempting as they were 20 years ago. Lazing around and doing general shots of a Turkish resort is something I can do any day

I was careful not to be insulting to anyone and made it very clear that the RED images were not something I have to have to give to TV stations and sponsors but something I just fancy as a memento. So if this is not tempting to you, I respect that, but you should respect the fact that what I'm offering is not a ripoff either, so if a nice paid vacation is not to your liking, then that's fine, but my offer is what it is and I always understood that professionals that depend/demand paying gigs would not take me up on it.
As for "lazing about" on a resort, you do as much or as little with your time as you want, but I can tell you that in 2001 my friend Justin Wheeler from Frontier Productions came to the same exact town we'll be on this time, as a guest of ours, and he amassed enough footage to make a 1 hour documentary about Ephesus that sold to the travel channel for $30-40K I think, and high definition images of the town itself that he then sold to the municipality for another $10K for their own adds, and even managed to shoot (and edit) and couple of short adds for two of the local Boat Tour operators for like $5K a piece, so all in all, he went home with around $60K after 12 days of "lazing around" so, no, my offer to capture stock footage is not bulls...t although I admit that you could well go home empty handed...

What about shooting a Discovery / Nat Geo or similar special show? Or a film for theatrical release? Make the RED teams do the shots for such a show? Deep freediving has been covered before, but not in 4K.

Have you tried to sell a spec program to Discovery or Nat Geo lately? They have become, Discovery much more so than Nat Geo, perverted prostitutes that pay VERY little for stuff they don't commission, if they buy it at all. Last time they offered me $7.5K for a show that was shot fully on HD and wanted perpetuity rights so no, I wouldn't count on them saving the day.

But, the idea of gathering enough footage for a theatrical style release, that could be interesting indeed, especially if we can agree on deferred payment options down the line, something I have no problem with since, believe it or not, I do feel strongly that people should get paid for their work. I will think on it and get back to you.

I think that if you want professionals to with gear worth +/- $100K and many years of experience to come along, you need to tempt them with a little more than free lunch.
I don't have a problem with deferred fees or revenues down the line, but I need to know beforehand that doing this will generate some money some day.

Amund

Again, I'm offering a bit more than free lunch and it's not my intention to insult anybody, but hey, this is one of those take it or leave it deals. For the record, I was asked to come and spend a month in the Chilean Patagonia by a winery who offered to bed me and feed me like a God in exchange for HD footage to use on their marketing and no salary. I jumped on it, had a great time, drank some magical wine, met some great people and captured over 300 hours of wilderness footage that, to this day, is my best selling stock footage. So go figure...

Regarding rebreathers, no, in our team we want the predictability of open circuit gear, even with all the undeniable advantages of "breathers" but when you have a team of 20+ divers, 15 of whom are breathing mix, it is our experience that the safest, easiest route to go is conventional gear. Our safety team is experienced enough to blow their bubbled down current and never get them on the descent line. Oh and BTW, don't ask Kirk Krack about me, the freediving world is very small and full of big egos, so that there's either love or hate between the "tribes" and Kirk and I thoroughly enjoy hating each other

 

[Johnny Friday]

Zeiss 14mm MK 2 PL Prime

Zeiss 14mm MK 2 PL Prime

I posted this in the equipment for sale section and wanted to post here since this is a great underwater lens. it is my lens of choice for most my work. I'd get an UP at 14mm, but this is more my budget.

The original post with photos is here:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34600


I've got two of these and was using for 3d testing. Now it's time to bid farewell to one of them.

Here's what you get:
1. Arriflex Zeiss standard 14mm T2.1 PL mount Mk 2 Prime Lens
(mark 2 is a full rotation for iris)
2. Front and Rear Lens caps
3. 138mm Clip on shade
4. Hard case for both lens and shade

Lens was serviced this year by Stuart at Focus Optics....it was lubed up just after a shoot and used for some testing only since. There is not much i can say about this lens that you won't already know. It's crisp and one of my work horses for underwater work. This is a must have lens in my opinion (or this 14mm FOV). I've tried some Nikon's and others and they are good, but nothing as edge to edge crisp as the Zeiss.

Pictures will show you details.
Price: $6,200 + shipping from San Diego.

*interested parties can email me at: johnny at bajaecotours.com

 

[Amund Lie]

Rudi,

Ok, now I know where you stand on this, and I am still interested.
Sounds like a straight deal, and I am sure we can discuss some options that can make us all happy. I can assure you you won't experience anything like with those other guys who had you royally screwed!

Let's continue discussing privately.

BTW: I don't know Kirk well at all, so don't worry

 

[Johnny Friday]

Dates gentlemen. Got to know them asap to continue discussion. I'm on a 5 week shoot beginning end of Oct. or early Nov. Its up in the air for the moment but it is laid at my feet to pass my schedule of availability. So give me an idea of dates.
thanks.

 

[jim kozmik]

Hello Again...Jim Kozmik herefrom Canada..hopefully this underwater site can stay up for a while....I have received the Aquavideo housing and cable back and have been playing with Zeiss wide lenses etc.the new Duclos might be the way to go or try the Canon/Birger conversation kit out..shooting coldwater shipwrecks is dismal,dark and very difficult..and lighting is even harder below 160 ft.Anyways i am in Ontario and am now available for hire with my gear..all rebreather trimix ugly coldwaterstuff or any warm sunny tropical local would also be nice.Kozzzzzzzzzz

 

[Amund Lie]

Hi Jim,

Welcome back to the resurrected forum!

What is your setup with the Aquavideo like? Have you modified it with any gears or servos? I am planning to install servos in mine for a crane shoot, and interested to hear if anybody has knowledge of this, either with standard remote FF-servos or specially built.

Ontario eh? Done much under ice shooting? We have more or less the same conditions here in Norway, and I am trying to specialize in cold water/ice shooting for European productions that come to Norway for artic conditions. Curious to hear what your experiences are.

 

[jim kozmik]

Well Amund.I am a new Aquavideo housing owner and are still playing with it and,trying to decide on my lense kit yet..I am thinking external monitor and Zeiss or Canon/Birger combo..we are going to be shooting a new underwater tv series so I have to decide before DEMA..and go with it..frazier has been given me great advice using his Canon/Birger conversation settup..so being a simple canadian diver I may go for this
I have lengthened the handles by 4 inches...white marked the rears of the controls...added 2 -6 inch cross leggs along the bottom to stabalize the housing on boatdecks and added 4 inches onto the upper and lower lens shade and a neoprene dome cover as well....doing another water pool test next week...also learned in darkwaters like we have to play with monitor ..up the brightness and contrast levels to see in lower light conditions ......any suggestions would be gladly welcomed...KOZZZ

 

[Michael Hastings]

Hi Jim,

Welcome back to the resurrected forum!

What is your setup with the Aquavideo like? Have you modified it with any gears or servos? I am planning to install servos in mine for a crane shoot, and interested to hear if anybody has knowledge of this, either with standard remote FF-servos or specially built.

Amund, Sebastian Cramer in Germany, bought one of my prototype PVC housings for a project and managed to install heden motors over a weekend so it can certainly be done. I have attached a photo.

I think either Birger or Servos for PL are the smartest way to go. The reason is I think gearing (unless you do it yourself, or money is no object although even then servos are probably better) is just too expensive and limiting. Gears (with waterproof actuators) are not only fairly expensive by themselves but very time consuming to install so we have to charge a lot for them. (In essence you are paying about $12K for the gearing system on a Gates housing.)

And gears still lack much flexibility for different size lenses - which is the norm for underwater. Probably the best underwater lens is the 10mm Arri because it is Wide, Sharp, and Fast - almost a full stop faster than the 8r, but it is huge and then you need to go to a much smaller lens for macro or certain feature type shots.

With motors you are paying mostly for the motor system and they are expensive - but you can use them for a lot of other stuff or resell them on the regular market if you move onto another system. As much as it would be nice to sell an extra 5 to 10K of waterproof gearing, I have always tried to put myself in the position of saying "knowing what I know, what would I do as an enduser?" And the answer would be put the money into generic lens motors rather than custom underwater gears.

Plus since the actuation is electrical rather than through mechanical linkages it is a lot easier to move them around for various lens setups because you just have to worry about attaching to the camera mount and lining up with the lens. You don't have to worry about linkages to the outside of the housing. So I think it is also easier for the end user to do it if necessary whenever the time is right.

I had a lot of experience and was very familiar with servo motors and control for broadcast video lenses, but never had much call for the cine style motor stuff before RED so it is something I plan to get more into as we move toward Epic. We have a big ARRI rental facility here in Ft. Lauderdale so I will start looking at what they have, but any info you guys can share on various motors would be great. We don't necessarily need the most sophistication - size and cost may be just as important.

... Done much under ice shooting? We have more or less the same conditions here in Norway, and I am trying to specialize in cold water/ice shooting for European productions that come to Norway for artic conditions. Curious to hear what your experiences are.

As far as ice diving, when it gets cold my fingers still hurt from my last ice dive in 1983. I was shooting for a local television show when I lived in Minnesota and since I'm 6' 5" the dive store we were working with didn't have a dry suit my size so I had to wear my wet suit. (the talent had a nice drysuit). We were taping a local talent so I had to go in first, then after fussing for 5 minutes he jumped in and his tank popped off, so out again for another 5-10. As you know, with a wet suit your body basically freaks out for the first few minutes until you acclimate; then you have 10 or 15 where you are sort of okay; and from there you are basically moving into hypothermia. So we swam around for a bit and got all the shots and then of course I still had to stay down for the exit shot. After I came out, even though i guess it wasn't frostbite, my fingers had some of the most intense pain I've ever had - and to this day they ache sometimes. So suffice it to say that - even though Offshore gave me a drysuit after that (since we had featured their suits) I never quite qot around to doing any more ice dives.:biggrin:

 

[jim kozmik]

I am very interested in this DUCLOS tokinia.11-16mm reconverted PL mount system..I see Amund..you have one..how is this lense for you...is the depth of field good at 5.6....it would be a good add on to rent my unit out with a camera/underwater ready lense to go kit...and AT$3000.OO...ABOUT $1600.OO less THEN THE CANON/BIRGER/Aquavideo control system..
900.o for Canon 10-22mm..Birger 1300.00 and Aquavision kit 1600.00 plus shipping and Canadian import taxes...BUT of course.I am limited to 1 wide lense on a PL mount...where with the Canon combo I can use other lenses as well.....decisions.always a hassle..kozzzzzzzzzzz