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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Understanding Frame Tools

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Gavin Rizza

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Hello

I'm trying create some 1920x1080 16:9 DNxHD 185X footage out of 4K 2:1 clips in REDCINE X. I've tried and tried, read the manual and searched the web but I cannot figure out how to do this (seemingly simple) task.

I'm I missing something really obvious? Maybe if someone could point me in the direction of a good explaination of how to use the framing presets and framing controls I'd be able to figure it out.

All help and advice is very greatfully recieved.

(I'm using REDCINE X 252)

G.
 
Agreed, a good overview of how to use the current Framing Tool in RC-X build 252 would be appreciated. As i see it now, you can select your output and the stretch it around in the viewer. but would be great to have a fully functional explanation of the current framing tool and how to use it properly.
thanks...
 
I agree it's not particularly intuitive, and there are things it can't do at all as far as I can tell (like make a PAL anamorphic file from a 2:1 source).

However what Gavin is trying to do should happen by default. You should not need to use the framing tools at all for this, as 'fit width' is the default setting. Just make a 1920x1080 MXF output setting and export.
 
Note: RCX always does Crop then Scale.

Framing settings choose the area of the image you want in the output. This can be smaller, larger or the same as your final output resolution.

The export preset determines the size of the output. i.e. 1920x1080 DNxHD 185 would have 1920x1080 set on the preset. (automatic for the case of Avid exports)

The trickiest part is the fit. Fit takes the cropped image and applies a rule that determines how it will scale into the output dimensions. Based on your fit type and your selected framing area you can have a smaller area in the final image than your framing setting is showing. I.E. the case of Fit height 2:1 into a 16:9 output where the left and right of the image will be trimmed off to fit the center of the image (horizontally) into the output.

I'm trying create some 1920x1080 16:9 DNxHD 185X footage out of 4K 2:1 clips in REDCINE X.
Click to expand...

Framing always defaults to Fit Width, and to put a 2:1 into a 16:9 covering the full 16:9 area you will want to use Fit height.
You just have to create an export preset and choose "Avid AAF&MXF" from the file format drop down.
Then press setup and choose one of the DNxHD 185 codecs.
Press Ok then Ok to create the export preset.
Now select the preset and export your clip.

This will take the 4k 2.1 and do a fit height into the 1920x1080 image cutting off the left and right areas that do not line up.

If you wanted to choose something other than the vertical center of the image for export then you will want to select that region with the framing settings.

If you want to be absolutely sure that what you have selected in the framing settings matches what is in the output, choose Fit Width and set your framing settings to the same aspect ratio as your output resolution.

Remember: You can use the command key to move the framing box around without changing it's dimensions.
 
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I understand how the framing tools work when rendering to square pixel formats, but I cannot see a way of using them to render to non square pixels except NTSC 4x3 using the "fit width x0.9" option.

In Europe a lot of programmes are offlined PAL anamorphic, which for 16x9 RED formats can be done with "stretch". But 2:1 and 4.5k cannot be letterboxed into a 720x576 anamorphic frame. Can I put in a request that this option be added with a "fit width x1.46" option?
 
Hello Matthew,

Thanks for that advice. Interestingly that's the process I stumbled on but for some reason what I end up with when I bring the MXF files into the Avid is a strange frame which has two small crushed frames of the processed footage side by side squashed into the top third of the frame. I'm still doing something wrong. Right? Do RED have any better user guides for these common processes? The manual is a bit light in detail.

Thanks Again

G.
 
It sounds like you are seeing a framing bug or it could also be the values being entered into the boxes wrong.
On the bug front several of conditions which caused that issue have been fixed in 252. Have you tried it with build 252 yet?

If this still occurs with build 252 please send me your RCX log files and a screen shot of your framing tool. to: redcinex at red dot com
 
I've had the same results with 252 and the earlier version (251?) too.

It only occurs when I apply a setting from the framing tools. Other wise the files transcode with no problem. I'm positive it's me and not the app though. Something very basic that I'm simply not getting. I'm in the last few days of online for a bunch of shorts but will aim to get some of the info to you ASAP. Where can I find RCX's log files?

Again, many thanks

G.
 
Matthew Yaeger said:
Note: RCX always does Crop then Scale.

Framing settings choose the area of the image you want in the output. This can be smaller, larger or the same as your final output resolution.

The export preset determines the size of the output. i.e. 1920x1080 DNxHD 185 would have 1920x1080 set on the preset. (automatic for the case of Avid exports)

The trickiest part is the fit. Fit takes the cropped image and applies a rule that determines how it will scale into the output dimensions. Based on your fit type and your selected framing area you can have a smaller area in the final image than your framing setting is showing. I.E. the case of Fit height 2:1 into a 16:9 output where the left and right of the image will be trimmed off to fit the center of the image (horizontally) into the output.



Framing always defaults to Fit Width, and to put a 2:1 into a 16:9 covering the full 16:9 area you will want to use Fit height.
You just have to create an export preset and choose "Avid AAF&MXF" from the file format drop down.
Then press setup and choose one of the DNxHD 185 codecs.
Press Ok then Ok to create the export preset.
Now select the preset and export your clip.

This will take the 4k 2.1 and do a fit height into the 1920x1080 image cutting off the left and right areas that do not line up.

If you wanted to choose something other than the vertical center of the image for export then you will want to select that region with the framing settings.

If you want to be absolutely sure that what you have selected in the framing settings matches what is in the output, choose Fit Width and set your framing settings to the same aspect ratio as your output resolution.

Remember: You can use the command key to move the framing box around without changing it's dimensions.
Click to expand...

I'm feeling a bit dense... perhaps I'm missing something, but I can't export a cropped image from build 260.

I'm using the framing tools to pick a smaller area from a 4k screen to export to Avid DNxHD. I've tried the fit height, fit width and stretch H/W settings, but all I am ever able to export is the uncropped frame. I've saved the settings in the framing settings presets and applied them to my shot. The only way I get what I want is by taking a snapshot of the cropped area.

What am I doing wrong?

best,
Scott
 
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