***UNDERSTAND THIS*** ..and you will have less expectations!!

[Roberto B]

David R nominated for fanboi of the year.. guess who's the 2nd?

David R nominated for fanboi of the year.. guess who's the 2nd?

sigh.. osti:

Yeah. That's all I am saying.

poor Jim

 

[David Rasberry]

Oh, well than that is different. We only had it blown up big enough to be viewed on a 12' screen.

I find the H.264 artifacts from the Canons quite visible on original clip footage on a 24" monitor, much less anything larger. The motion jpeg of the Nikons is actually a little better. Yes these cameras can produce usable footage under a very limited range of conditions. But those limitations make them unsuitable for general purpose day in day out motion production.

 

[Roberto B]

Why is there this belief that Red is unlike other manufacturers who roll out new products?

Let's face it. Those who get the Epic-X upgrade for $10.5k will be spending upward of another $35k for a new brain with higher DR and larger sensor size in a year or two's time in the shape of the Monstro. They will likely have to sell their epic-x for a loss to afford that upgrade too.

Fair enough you don't have to buy some of the other bits that attach to that brain but canon or nikon would be laughed at if they released part of a camera that cost $35k.

And what after Red have brought out the Mostro line up? A year or two after that we'll have an even better epic brain that'll cost another $40k for Redusers to update too. Even if you go the Scarlet route you might be talking close to $20k once you've upgraded to the monstro version.

With Red's upgrades we're talking the cost of houses here. Canon and nikon's offerings by contrast will be affordable to many average joe's on the streets.

Put this way. If Canon or Nikon do up there game a bit the Epic line-up could be severely dented. Suddenly Red could look like a very expensive company to remain loyal too.

And let's not forget that Red's tag line was "Making obselesence obsolete" when they first started out, yet here we are about to shell out a few more thousand dollars for an upgrade less than two years after purchasing the original camera. My brother who is a photographer has spent far less on his Nikon kit than I have on Red related purchases in that time.

That's not too say that I'm not looking to buy/looking forward to Epic and scarlet because I am. But in the interest of balance such a point should be made.

Paul

Hi David,

I don't disagree with your sentiments. I'm merely pointing out that the same complaints that people have about other camera developers producing new cameras with new features to replace one they bought a year or two ago could well be applied to Red as well.

Paul

:hat:

:wink5:

 

[Ketch Rossi]

How much cinema projection have you shot for ?

Quite extensively, as I have been testing for Chronicles of Perseverance, looking to give this Picture a very unique feel, and wanted to explore al available medias and interaction of various footage, captured in different ways and with different gear.

The story brings such distinct settings and fillings, that I have been looking in which way I could best bring what I see, to life, utilizing as little Post as possible and rather capture the images from the start with such elements that will differentiate how the viewer will see and feel the various moments represented in this story.

So if I could tell you exactly what I have been up to I would, but I really can't so I wont

But even so some cameras do produce an interesting effect, is not good in off for me as far as the price paid, as far as Image manipulation loss of quality do to the high compression, as well as how much you can actually stretch the footage.

This project is my life line, and possibly my first and last, so I wanted to give it all I can, and testing the available gear to allow me to tell my story the way I envision, is a must.

 

[Antony M]

I think it will be a great and even popular tool for video pros, but what would be the photography benefit of getting a Scarlet over a D3s or 1D if you make your trade as a
still photographer?

Has there been any announcements on what the workflow will be for getting still shots out of the Epic/Scarlet ?

Will users need to load the R3D into RedCine (PC users) and then export a TIFF, then import the TIFF into Photoshop?

Or will there be a way of saving discrete frames in some new RAW format, which Photoshop / Bridge / etc will be able to read directly?

 

[David Rasberry]

sigh.. osti:

poor Jim

I admit it. I am a fanboy.:biggrinjester:

Hopefully soon a fan boy with a camera!:ciappa:

 

[Jarred Land]

And let's not forget that Red's tag line was "Making obselesence obsolete" when they first started out, yet here we are about to shell out a few more thousand dollars for an upgrade less than two years after purchasing the original camera. My brother who is a photographer has spent far less on his Nikon kit than I have on Red related purchases in that time..

Paul

Wow Paul usually gets it.... but not here.

The R1 has never driven off course, We have given free audio board upgrades, optional sensor upgrades, and free firmware upgrades that most companies would call 5 new cameras... and hell we are even taking everyones camera back for full price so they can move along with advances which means for alot of people they have had a Red One for free for the last 2 years.

The Epic is an Evolution and we are bringing all the RED ONE customers with us...

When people start to question our motivations it not only makes me sad.. it pisses me off a little.

 

[Jon B.]

Wow Paul usually gets it.... but not here.

The R1 has never driven off course, We have given free audio board upgrades, optional sensor upgrades, and free firmware upgrades that most companies would call 5 new cameras... and hell we are even taking everyones camera back for full price so they can move along with advances which means for alot of people they have had a Red One for free for the last 2 years.

The Epic is an Evolution and we are bringing all the RED ONE customers with us...

When people start to question our motivations it not only makes me sad.. it pisses me off a little.

Agreed, sometimes I wish people would deal with their decisions by crying to their girlfriends like I do.

Jarred, for the record there are people who appreciate the Red philosophy and that great things take a lot to accomplish. Not all consumers will be able to cope with what you guys are doing and will do.

Hopefully Red will not lose faith but I have a hunch that what ever happens, it will all be WORTH it... to me at least.

 

[Matthias "Maddel" Neumann]

Jarred, for the record there are people who appreciate the Red philosophy and that great things take a lot to accomplish. .

There are lots of people who appreciate...!

 

[Ketch Rossi]

!!@

!!@

Wow Paul usually gets it.... but not here.

The R1 has never driven off course, We have given free audio board upgrades, optional sensor upgrades, and free firmware upgrades that most companies would call 5 new cameras... and hell we are even taking everyones camera back for full price so they can move along with advances which means for alot of people they have had a Red One for free for the last 2 years.

The Epic is an Evolution and we are bringing all the RED ONE customers with us...

When people start to question our motivations it not only makes me sad.. it pisses me off a little.

Well Jarred, many of us do understand and fully appreciate RED's motivation and Business model :thumbsup::thumbsup:

In fact such a practice as that of RED some times, if I didn't stop more then once to think about hum Jim really is, I would start thinking that at RED they are just doing lot's of Laundry, cause with all this free stuff we have being getting, continue to get, and now with the EPIC upgrade path, is just to hard to believe, I mean I'm known to be a very generous guy, but RED is a Business, we should be very greatfull for their ways, and I know I am, hell I have sent out two R1's two years ago in a long term lease and now I'm very much looking in to get two brand new Epics after the R1's have paid them self off, and instead of getting back two very used cams, I'll get two state of the F$#@!@ ART EPIC, I don't drink, but I :cheers2: to that!!

 

[PaulClements]

Wow Paul usually gets it.... but not here.

The R1 has never driven off course, We have given free audio board upgrades, optional sensor upgrades, and free firmware upgrades that most companies would call 5 new cameras... and hell we are even taking everyones camera back for full price so they can move along with advances which means for alot of people they have had a Red One for free for the last 2 years.

The Epic is an Evolution and we are bringing all the RED ONE customers with us...

When people start to question our motivations it not only makes me sad.. it pisses me off a little.

Hi Jarred,

Sorry if you've taken what I was saying as insulting to the Red programme, it's not suppose too. Infact I'm very much a fan of what Red have been doing from the start. As I said I'm very much excited by the scarlet and epic lineup from my perspective as a user but what I was trying iterate was that those who bang on about Canon releasing new products that supersede something they bought a year or two ago need to understand that nearly all electronics are the same. As such I was trying to highlight that Red could be viewed in a similar light, afterall our business here in the UK needs to be on the cutting edge to get the customers, it's the nature of it. As such we'll be buying the Epic-X and FF35 or better once that is released. I'd love to be able to wait for the FF35 or better and simply upgrade then but we'd lose business and clients in the mean time. So for me personally the upgrading of cameras exists within the Red product line as well. The point is that I don't complain about it because I recognise that that's the nature of cameras. I just wanted to try in some small way to stop people banging on about other camera companies such as Canon because I hate reading stuff like that when it exists in nearly all products we buy as consumers or professionals.

I don't think the Red One has ever driven off course. It's a great camera and has performed excellently for me. The updates have been excellent agreed and have continued to advance the camera. Again I'm in no way bagging how good the camera or upcoming cameras are.

Furthermore Red are better than any other company I've ever dealt with in terms of personal touches (Red Europe have been extremely helpful to me as have those in the states when it has been required). Each update, from Red One to Epic-X and hopefully Epic-X to FF35+ are greater leaps than other camera companies take of course they are. And yes, the fact we can trade-in is unheard of and I for one greatly appreciate it.

I don't own a Canon camera and I'm certainly not a fanboy of it, I'm not trying to protect their reputation by posting what I posted. To reiterate it's just to counter the arguments against them though frankly I'm wondering why I bothered because I've only served to piss you and no doubt others at Red off.

Again my apologies that you were insulted, it wasn't my intention but reading it back I can see what I put could be read that way by you and should've thought before I wrote it.

Paul

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Hi Jarred,

Sorry if you've taken what I was saying as insulting to the Red programme, it's not suppose too. Infact I'm very much a fan of what Red have been doing from the start. As I said I'm very much excited by the scarlet and epic lineup from my perspective as a user but what I was trying iterate was that those who bang on about Canon releasing new products that supersede something they bought a year or two ago need to understand that nearly all electronics are the same. As such I was trying to highlight that Red could be viewed in a similar light, afterall our business here in the UK needs to be on the cutting edge to get the customers, it's the nature of it. As such we'll be buying the Epic-X and FF35 or better once that is released. I'd love to be able to wait for the FF35 or better and simply upgrade then but we'd lose business and clients in the mean time. So for me personally the upgrading of cameras exists within the Red product line as well. The point is that I don't complain about it because I recognise that that's the nature of cameras. I just wanted to try in some small way to stop people banging on about other camera companies such as Canon because I hate reading stuff like that when it exists in nearly all products we buy as consumers or professionals.

I don't think the Red One has ever driven off course. It's a great camera and has performed excellently for me. The updates have been excellent agreed and have continued to advance the camera. Again I'm in no way bagging how good the camera or upcoming cameras are.

Furthermore Red are better than any other company I've ever dealt with in terms of personal touches (Red Europe have been extremely helpful to me as have those in the states when it has been required). Each update, from Red One to Epic-X and hopefully Epic-X to FF35+ are greater leaps than other camera companies take of course they are. And yes, the fact we can trade-in is unheard of and I for one greatly appreciate it.

I don't own a Canon camera and I'm certainly not a fanboy of it, I'm not trying to protect their reputation by posting what I posted. To reiterate it's just to counter the arguments against them though frankly I'm wondering why I bothered because I've only served to piss you and no doubt others at Red off.

Again my apologies that you were insulted, it wasn't my intention but reading it back I can see what I put could be read that way by you and should've thought before I wrote it.

Paul

Paul, just so we are clear,

my rant with companies such as Canon, whit hum I have ben for over twenty years, is not about their product quality, and or advancements in technology, but is a very well founded rant on how they do it in recent years, and especially when releasing a camera such as the 5D II which made the 1Ds III take a fall of 50% its reseal value, this is what I'm talking about, and is not right, no matter how you cut it, and this is been extensively discussed amongst many Pro photographers.

This post instead is to redirect people's expectations of such DSLR's currently in the market, and not expect of them what RED can bring, cause it will just never happen, not in their current configuration, and processing power, and not till they come up with a completely new body, sensor, and processor.

 

[George Butterfield]

and is not right, no matter how you cut it, and this is been extensively discussed amongst many Pro photographers.

I think you're totally wrong ... nobody twists your arm and makes you buy anything. Grow up, be a man, pay your money and take your choice. If you really don't like something, vote with your wallet and/or start your own camera company. It's OK to complain (a little, maybe) ... but let's not be babies about it. Just keep a RED ONE, or whatever you're presently using, and make an award winning feature film.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I think you're totally wrong ... nobody twists your arm and makes you buy anything. Grow up, be a man, pay your money and take your choice. If you really don't like something, vote with your wallet and/or start your own camera company. It's OK to complain (a little, maybe) ... but let's not be babies about it. Just keep a RED ONE, or whatever you're presently using, and make an award winning feature film.

.. and that is your opinion off course and you are entitled to have one, as we are all.

 

[Eddy Robinson]

rant on how they do it in recent years, and especially when releasing a camera such as the 5D II which made the 1Ds III take a fall of 50% its reseal value (...)

Wait, you're saying that Canon's pricing strategy with the 5d2 damages the resale value of their more expensive cameras? So...does that mean you'd be happy if the 5d2 were more expensive, to protect someone who invested in a 1ds3?

:emote_rainshower:

I appreciate it's disappointing to see the resale price fall on such an expensive camera as the 1d series; it means that older customers are subsidizing the newer customers. Then again, isn't that part of the price you pay for being able to buy the top-range model earlier than people who have to wait for the technology to come down to a cheaper model?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Well yes, it was not pleasing to see 8K go to 4k after the release of the 5D II, its fantastic that Canon did what they did with the 5D II but I guess those with the 1Ds III, and believe me we were and are quite a few, didn't tucked well at all, but then again, it was just something that had happen to me for the first time and I just didn't like it, that is all.

I laso had and sold the 1D III, still have one more, and the 5D II, I bought this one to test out the Video for a current project, and return it few days after, just not the camera for me, as far as video goes, and as I had the 1Ds III was not certainly to use the 5D II for photography, but when I went to sale the 1Ds III just was not pleased.

Learned my lesson, and I think I'm starting to better understand were this Digital era is taking companies like Canon and just hope that soon I will not longer have to deal with any other company then RED of hum I'm extremely pleased in their way of business model.

 

[Tinkleton]

It's "who" or "whom".

Also, you don't have to deal with any company that you are displeased with. Unless of course Canon is forcing you to buy their products.

 

[Jim Retar]

The 1Ds III came out, what 15 months before the 5dII? It is a far more rugged, pro camera. Most photographers would still take the 1Ds III over the 5dII... so I don't really see the complaint, from a photography point of view.

As it was said before.... try and buy at the start of a product cycle and you wont get burned. If you want to make money from technology, you have to be prepared for this.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

It's "who" or "whom".

Also, you don't have to deal with any company that you are displeased with. Unless of course Canon is forcing you to buy their products.

Well I thank you for correcting my English.

I know I don't have too, and this is something I will take care of very soon, but for now they still do bring what I want as far as product, and there was never a complain there, also this thread has nothing to do, with this, but it points out what to expect from such cameras vs. the RED.

The 1Ds III came out, what 15 months before the 5dII? It is a far more rugged, pro camera. Most photographers would still take the 1Ds III over the 5dII... so I don't really see the complaint, from a photography point of view.

As it was said before.... try and buy at the start of a product cycle and you wont get burned. If you want to make money from technology, you have to be prepared for this.

I'll say this again, this thread has nothing to do with this, it has everything to do with what this cameras can bring vs. the RED, and understanding the fact that they will not bring what RED does, simply because they are totally different cameras.

As far as the 1D bodies been very different and what one is to the other, I think I know that, as I'm not an amateur photographer and had used literally every single Canon camera made over the past twenty years!

I don't buy technology to make money, I buy it I use it and when something that does better for my work comes along I sale it.

As pointed out on a OTHER thread not on this one, my rant in THE OTHER thread was abut how much value the 1Ds III had lost after the announcement of the 5D II.



NOW if every one was to read before posting, then they would read what this Thread is about instead of reading the last post and reply to it!!

 

[Jim Retar]

you bought it up in this thread, so it becomes relevant.

The fact that your initial thread is based on guesswork and conjecture probably steared the topic in a different direction anyway. The idea that Canon will never release a dedicated cinema camera that can takes stills is pretty narrow minded.

Also, right now, we can only guess at the still capacity of the new RED range, if the features are limited to taking frame captures, then it is not really anywhere close to a stills cam. We have no idea about ISO, fast auto focusing... or even features like bracketing etc.