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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Uk Rental House - Red Camera

Hmmmm pricefixing? :shiftyph34r: You've got to fix a price that means your business survives:biggrin: and that keeps your customers coming back.

I'll tell you a funny but true story. A line producer once awarded me the contract for a TV drama because a big competiter rental company quoted way too low!! You gotta ask why they felt they needed to do it:wacko:

Anyways, I was more expensive and shouldn't have got the job based on price but the line producer said a funny thing when I asked him why he didn't go with the lower quote. "It was too low. I didn't see how they could look after our production at that rate..."

Lowest is not always best.
 
darkkelt said:
I believe they call that milking clients for all you can get. the RED One isn't the f950 and you can't justify charging anyone like it is or forcing them to take 2 people where the job is really one person with some RED know how and some common sense.

backing up folders to an LTO and a backup harddrive isn't rocket science. as for investing 100,000 pounds unless your including scratch post in that rate then your actual outlay for the RED and Accessories is more like 15,000 pounds. that two to one dollar to pound rate sure is great even with the 17% vat rate.

even a decent 35mm rig costs 4 times more than a red cam. obviously the revolution red started didn't quite make it past you guys. this was supposed to throw things open to the indie world not give some people an opportunity to milk producers with less experience
Click to expand...

Utter Bulls**t! - please check your facts before you go throwing stuff like this around! It all depends on HOW you kit you red out - I suppose Zeiss primes, decent grip kit & Arri matteboxes & follow-focus can be had at currys for spit? The Scratch is included in this. Did I say that backing stuff up is rocket science? no - but it is very important to get right and it IS time consuming. £15,000 for camera stuff - who says! this may suit some, but certainly not our clients. We are getting one full cinema style package with a second body along with a full Scratch system with tangent panels, cinespace, eizo monitors & an 8TB raid, a Fully kitted out Mac Pro with 8TB Raid plus much more..
 
darkkelt said:
I believe they call that milking clients for all you can get. the RED One isn't the f950 and you can't justify charging anyone like it is or forcing them to take 2 people where the job is really one person with some RED know how and some common sense.

backing up folders to an LTO and a backup harddrive isn't rocket science. as for investing 100,000 pounds unless your including scratch post in that rate then your actual outlay for the RED and Accessories is more like 15,000 pounds. that two to one dollar to pound rate sure is great even with the 17% vat rate.

even a decent 35mm rig costs 4 times more than a red cam. obviously the revolution red started didn't quite make it past you guys. this was supposed to throw things open to the indie world not give some people an opportunity to milk producers with less experience
Click to expand...


Sorry but you are way off base dude. I'm not talking milking anyone. I plan to build a long term sustainable business with clients that I already have a relationship with and with new ones I want to attract. You can't do that by ripping people off. The UK rental market currently has to give 75 - 85% discount off book rates to even be considered competitive for features/dramas. We are subsidising the film industry with kit over here. It is certainly not quick or easy money.
It would be nice to claw some margin back from the cost savings that the RED camera offers Producers and still make it much cheaper for them!
 
darkkelt said:
Doesnt take much to wind you guys up :) LOL call it irish humour
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Not laughing! - your comments expose your lack of understanding and do nothing to help those of us who have been eating, sleeping and breathing filmmaking for years (18 in my case). I care very deeply about quality of service and I damn well resent being told that I am ripping people off!
 
get a sense of humour. I've been a film maker for 10 and an engineer for 15. I've no lack of understanding. I thought the brits had acquired a sense of humour. guess not
 
AAAaaaanyway...to answer the original question (wasn't that a long time ago?) ICE Film, based in King's Cross London, will be hiring out a Red camera (number 247) in conjunction with 4KLondon who can handle the post workflow right through to film prints if needed:
http://www.4klondon.com/
ICE are great guys with some good kit (Cooke S4s, Zeiss UltraPrimes etc) and have lots of experience supplying kit to feature films & tv dramas.

By the way, Adam - your name rings a bell, I'm sure we've spoken before...will come to me sooner or later...

All the best,

David Wyatt.
http://www.4klondon.com/
 
Hi

I suspect apart from a few early 'peachy' hires silly money will not be paid for bare Red kits.. It is after all nearly free in film terms.

I'm interested in this thread because I'm London based and I have two cameras coming. These cameras will not be sloshing around in the ultra competitive rental market but mainly serving jobs which already exists (my bread and butter). However it is still better for me if Red stays above 2% DROI as long as possible. It is after all a precarious world and I like fast returns.

I know of a couple of very experienced lighting cameramen who will offer Red at prices I'm not even going to put in this thread for fear of causing crazy posting.

I suspect Dave's camera will return its money fast but those of us without our cameras in the next month or 2 will have to accept the normal market pricing rules that this industry runs with... Shortly there will be more Reds than F900 and they are not hard to hire..

regards

Michael
 
Don't waste your breathe, mate. Any person who quotes 15,000 pounds for Red and accessories is totally out to lunch. Particularly if you're shooting cinema style and everything a kit like that requires. Also, who cares if you "overcharge" for a digital back-up person. It is very important. Who gives a fuck what that guy thinks. The other day I went to see a physical therapist about my elbow. She gave me an elastic band to stretch with, told me to ice my elbow at night - all in a 15 minute session with copious notes like she was prepping me for brain surgury. The bill.?...$100.
 
darkkelt said:
I believe they call that milking clients for all you can get. the RED One isn't the f950 and you can't justify charging anyone like it is or forcing them to take 2 people where the job is really one person with some RED know how and some common sense.

backing up folders to an LTO and a backup harddrive isn't rocket science. as for investing 100,000 pounds unless your including scratch post in that rate then your actual outlay for the RED and Accessories is more like 15,000 pounds. that two to one dollar to pound rate sure is great even with the 17% vat rate.

even a decent 35mm rig costs 4 times more than a red cam. obviously the revolution red started didn't quite make it past you guys. this was supposed to throw things open to the indie world not give some people an opportunity to milk producers with less experience
Click to expand...

Sorry I read the post as accessories alone would be £15.000 not including RED, so ignore my 'Well spoken!' remark if you read that before I edited this post.

You guys have to understand that the actual rental price of gear is based on a percentage of it's actual cost. Most gear is rented out for 1-2 % of purchase price. So if you've spent $40000 on your camera gear you should essentially charge $400-$800/ day for it.

Sorry if that's letting you down but that's the hard fact. It will only pay itself off after about 2 years.

An ARRI 435 package is about £280/day list price (that's a camera that costs 5 times more).

A friend of mine pointed something out. The possibility of RED loosing it's value quick is quite possible (unless it's upgraded to new better sensors). So the shelf life is shorter and therefor a higher rental percentage. He calculates for around 3.5% for the RED camera only, which makes sense, I think.


fred
 
Blah, blah, blah...

RED, please could you fix the price and stop these guys bickering. 1.5% of cost would be fine.

Cheers.
 
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