UHD - 5 to 10 years

[Steven Caesare]

Felix, I ran such a system for many years. Problem with me with surround is that I find off-axis sounds trigger human fight / flight response, which is not something I wish to have triggered while enjoying a movie. Stereo is, for me, sufficient for most musical / movie experiences. Hell, for music I don't even have a problem with good mono!

I've also heard of a superb 6 channel demonstration whereby there was two front, two rear and two height speakers creating a seamless soundspace. I've not heard the demo, but from audio people I trust, I heard that it was superb.

Graeme

That's interesting Graeme. Have you found other folks with a similar response? I would guess it's rather uncommon.

That having been said... despite it's not being your personal preference, where you able to discern the differences between a 5.1 and 7.1 soundfield?

-sc

 

[Brandon Kraemer]

Please explain?

While I don't have any market numbers handy, my anecdotal observation seems to indicate the average sive of flat panels is going up, and I'm seeing more and more projection systems in homes of folks you wouldn't consider to be extreme A/V folks...

-sc

The fastest growing trend in personal technology today is the "Smart Phone". What is soon coming is an expansion on this idea that will very likely become a widely adopted replacement for phones, computers and some entertainment systems. A 9" to 11" touch screen in a tablet sized computer under 3 lbs and priced ~ current smart phone costs that can be used as personal sized entertainment systems under mobile circumstances. Because it's so immediate and mobile and obtainable to a wider range of people and emerging markets, programming is going to follow that trend. The larger screen/projection screen systems will always be there, but are not within reach of everyone and are limited to a single room.

 

[Felix K.]

Ah, that is a common mis-conceptoion, but that's not the recommended layout, and thus not how the soundtracks are mastered.

Note the layout at http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/51.html :

Now compare that to the locations defined for a 7.1 system at http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/71.html:

The surround experience when objects are located BEHIND you in the soundfield is very different than if is beside you.

It's even more dramatic whan an object moves PAST you.... starting from the fron speakers, moving throught the side speakers, and on to the rears.

Have you tried it in a roome large enough to provide some seperation and with material mastered for 7.1?

-sc

Well then THX does it a little differently now (because if you watch the THX test center on the Indiana Jones or StarWars DVDs they show it behind the listener). (The also say something at about 90-110° here; 110° would be behind the listener a bit). Dolby wants them at 110°

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html

Look at that here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surround_sound

Dolby Digital does it differently and that is how surround stages where build in the early 2000s. I guess THX changed their approach to make 7.1 sound more interesting to the consumer. You can however achieve the same thing with a well set-up 5.1 system, because the rear channels from the 7.1 mix are not just dropped when played on a 5.1 system, they are mixed onto the rear speakers there. What happened to 6.1 by the way? Why 2 speakers behind you when they are virtually next to each other?

 

[J Davis]

The broadest market is actually going the other way ... to smaller screens (and shorter format).

Please explain?

While I don't have any market numbers handy, my anecdotal observation seems to indicate the average sive of flat panels is going up, and I'm seeing more and more projection systems in homes of folks you wouldn't consider to be extreme A/V folks...

-sc

The silver screen that once dominated was forced to share a bed with TV. Now the TV/Movie Theatre money pot gets further divided ... internet ... laptops ... mobile viewing ... and even phones ... much to some peoples disgust (link)

Peoples viewing habits are changing.

 

[Stuart English]

4K distribution

4K distribution

Not in the consumer market. I do not believe we will have 4k and 8k broadcast channel or media distribution format in 5 years time.

I think we should take you up on that one

Your choice, 4K media distribution within 12 months or 5 years?

How shall we define "consumer market" though?

 

[JD Holloway]

If Red Ray can be built to stream using IP, and not just off the platter, then think 4Kish (way compressed) consumer video this year assuming you can afford the display. That being said the next gen 30" apple cinema displays might be 4K if they want (hell the pedestrian imac line is creeping up on 3K with the 27" where the 30" cine was last year). I guess it also depends on our definition of 4K...old arguments.

 

[Steven Caesare]

The silver screen that once dominated was forced to share a bed with TV. Now the TV/Movie Theatre money pot gets further divided ... internet ... laptops ... mobile viewing ... and even phones ... much to some peoples disgust (link)

Peoples viewing habits are changing.

Ah ok, I see what you were referring to.

the movie going audience is opting to stay home where screens are smaller.

However the average screen size in homes is going up, I expect (although obviously not to theater sizes).

Thanks.

-sc

 

[Steven Caesare]

Well then THX does it a little differently now (because if you watch the THX test center on the Indiana Jones or StarWars DVDs they show it behind the listener). (The also say something at about 90-110° here; 110° would be behind the listener a bit). Dolby wants them at 110°

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html

Look at that here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surround_sound

Dolby Digital does it differently and that is how surround stages where build in the early 2000s. I guess THX changed their approach to make 7.1 sound more interesting to the consumer. You can however achieve the same thing with a well set-up 5.1 system, because the rear channels from the 7.1 mix are not just dropped when played on a 5.1 system, they are mixed onto the rear speakers there. What happened to 6.1 by the way? Why 2 speakers behind you when they are virtually next to each other?

I'm not sure why they show the rears so close together. I have mine seperated by about 5 feet for my rears, and I can definitely tell the dfference between SRL and SRR.

I beg to differ regarding being able to "achieve the same thing" from a 5.1 system. Regardless of what may have been recommended in the past, there is material being mastered now for a 7.1 sound field with ~90° of speration between the SS and SR channels. A speaker in a single location just can't reproduce that locality of sound.

I have a 5.1 system upstairs in my main living room, and a 7.1 system downstairs. I can distinctly hear the difference.

I ask again, have you tried this in a room wher y ou have the space to discern the speration between the channels?

-sc

 

[J Davis]

Ah ok, I see what you were referring to.

the movie going audience is opting to stay home where screens are smaller.

However the average screen size in homes is going up, I expect (although obviously not to theater sizes).

Thanks.

-sc

not just at home, out of home. This morning's commute to work I sat next to three people on the subway, all watching TV on their iPhones

I see 4K acquisition for 720p delivery a lot these days

 

[I Bloom]

Not in the consumer market. I do not believe we will have 4k and 8k broadcast channel or media distribution format in 5 years time.

Do you have something valuable to bet, Ian? :emote_popcorn:

Don't care enough about this one to bet... and I'm also already I think out 50 Euro.

But mark my words, the 4K distribution channels will come.:sosp:

IBloom

 

[Felix K.]

I'm not sure why they show the rears so close together. I have mine seperated by about 5 feet for my rears, and I can definitely tell the dfference between SRL and SRR.

I beg to differ regarding being able to "achieve the same thing" from a 5.1 system. Regardless of what may have been recommended in the past, there is material being mastered now for a 7.1 sound field with ~90° of speration between the SS and SR channels. A speaker in a single location just can't reproduce that locality of sound.

I have a 5.1 system upstairs in my main living room, and a 7.1 system downstairs. I can distinctly hear the difference.

I ask again, have you tried this in a room wher y ou have the space to discern the speration between the channels?

-sc

Well, if there is 90° difference between SS and SR like you say and the SR are at 90° then the SR must be at 180° which is behind you and SRL and SRR together.

Yes, I tried it in different rooms where you can seperate the channels and I worked as an assistent in different 5.1 mixing environments (before 7.1 was introduced though).

If you place the 4.1 speakers at 45°, 135°, 225° and 315° (so basically in all 4 corners of a square in whose center you sit) which is basically my setup at home, you could achive virtually the same experience as with speakers right behind you. Just depends how the reciever handles the downmix from 7.1 to 5.1.

 

[Felix K.]

And about this movie phones discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T482ipWnBM4

 

[DCC Erickson]

The silver screen that once dominated was forced to share a bed with TV. Now the TV/Movie Theatre money pot gets further divided ... internet ... laptops ... mobile viewing ... and even phones ... much to some peoples disgust (link)

Peoples viewing habits are changing.

At some point people will have phone/computer/media players/projectors that are all in one. The only component left is the built-in projector, and it's not that far off. Or they'll have big home screens. That's only two platforms.

 

[Steven Caesare]

Well, if there is 90° difference between SS and SR like you say and the SR are at 90° then the SR must be at 180° which is behind you and SRL and SRR together.

Yes, I tried it in different rooms where you can seperate the channels and I worked as an assistent in different 5.1 mixing environments (before 7.1 was introduced though).

If you place the 4.1 speakers at 45°, 135°, 225° and 315° (so basically in all 4 corners of a square in whose center you sit) which is basically my setup at home, you could achive virtually the same experience as with speakers right behind you. Just depends how the reciever handles the downmix from 7.1 to 5.1.

Yeah, probably more like 75° for the SR channels.

My experience has been much different.

Even with the synthsized additional channels from 5.1 to 7.1 the immersion is imporoved.

And there is definitely a localization that is more discernable.

It's much the same as having a center dialogue speaker. Sure you can do without use the left and right front speakers to pan a voice to the "center" of the soundfield during mastering, but ther eis a big difference when you have an actual center channel with discrete channel driving it.

But to each his own. I'll keep by center channel and rear surrounds, thank you very much. ;-)

 

[Claus Mueller]

4K distribution

4K distribution

I think we should take you up on that one

Your choice, 4K media distribution within 12 months or 5 years?

How shall we define "consumer market" though?

I think we'll see another surprise from RED next year: 4k media distribution (RED Ray) including 4k display/touchscreen

Btw, is the EPIC/SCARLET built-in internet interface only for firmware downloads or can we upload media to the internet as well?

 

[Peter Osinski]

I'm not really interested in this. Wasn't there some experiment some kodak guys did where they put up a black and white checkerboard on an IMAX screen and kept upping the amount of squares until it was 4k. Before they even got to that point it looked gray.

My point being that home HDTV's are only going to get so big and at 60" you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 1920 vs 4k. Maybe you could on a 80" projector screen and up but i dont know. Just a thought

 

[JD Holloway]

If you place the 4.1 speakers at 45°, 135°, 225° and 315° (so basically in all 4 corners of a square in whose center you sit) which is basically my setup at home, you could achive virtually the same experience as with speakers right behind you. Just depends how the reciever handles the downmix from 7.1 to 5.1.

This is my setup for 5.1. Its also for dual stereo (About 80 of the time) which I quite like.