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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Uber-light RED and Steadicam configuration

C

Charles Papert

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I used my Klassen harness exclusively, never had time to switch to the PRO vest, and that weighs in at a hefty 12.5 lbs. The PRO arm with two canisters was about 10 lbs. So my estimated total for the entire rig was around 53-54 lbs (accounting for the items I didn't have with me at the prep when I weighed the rig). That's quite light, I'm used to a payload in the 80's. Since the vest and arm are something of a constant, we generally refer to the weight of a given rig as just the loaded sled (i.e. everything on the end of the arm) and thus the 31 lbs here was exceptionally light for a system with 35mm optics. It felt rather delightful!
 
Thanks for the useful posting Charles (as always). So the towel round the Red Drive successfully avoided dropped frames from loud acoustic vibration? How far were you from the front of the main speaker stacks?
 
The towel helped quite a bit, as well as Charles' great operating...buuuut being only feet away from huge speakers blasting GreenDay kinda made it a losing proposition.
Unfortunately the towel didn't completely solve the problem. There were lots of dropped frames. We should have been on compact flash cards on that camera, but there were no 16GB cards or (more importantly) 16GB CF modules to be found in the bay area.

2 days before prep I had found out that the bay area, dead for work during the previous 3 months, had 2 other 2 camera RED jobs on the same day! so, needless to say finding all the bodies with PL mounts and proper accessories was a fairly large task. Thanks to Lee and Ryan at Lee Utterbach Camera (*PLUG*-lucamera.com) , we were able to get all the cameras together and outfitted more or less properly.
 
Howdy folks, the director here (and now editing this job)...

Sad to say the Red drive took a beating. Hundreds of dropped frames. I knew that a Red RAM would have fixed this problem, but I also knew that enough insulation wrapped around the drive would as well (which worked for 8 cameras). The two in the barricade needed full-on queen sized comforters, apparently. The show was 2.5 hours and I have a VERY quick turnaround on some of the edits, so I didn't want to risk syncing issues with a ton of 8gb loads.

The good news is that even with the dropped frames, inadvertent camera shutdowns, and weird "POST" issues, I still have a ton of usable footage. In my opinion, it's a testament to smart streaming design and robust file format design.
 
Nice setup Charles...looks like it would fly well. I read your Steadicam post post. Sounds like you worked through the usual (and some unusual) issues well.

Nate, I was DP for the recent 10 RED camera concert coverage of Journey in Manila. All 10 cameras used RED Drives on ET Shock Mounts, including the five cameras on and right in front of the stage. We had absolutely zero dropped frames from any of the ten cameras. No RED Ram, no CF cards, all RED Drives on ET shock Mounts - and no dropped frames whatsoever. I noticed in Charles' Steadicam forum post that it wasn't an ET Shock Mount he used.

I'm based just three hours south of Oakland, two of my three REDs have PL mounts, and I have four ET Shock Mounts. If you'd have contacted me I would have run up to Oakland with some gear to help you out.

Sounds like you guys worked through the normal issues that come up for gigs like that. It also sounds like you had a very good crew. It'll be a big job editing all that, but I'm sure you'll nail it well. I'll look forward to checking out the program...
 
Most of our cams had ET shockmounts. Regardless, the ET shockmount in my experience, (and I shoot almost exclusively loud music) doesn't help with excessive sound levels. I've had problems with loud music and the ET mount at least 5-6 times in the last year. I could see it helping somewhat, but I've still always had the issue. There's also a chance I shoot bands that like their playback and concerts louder! In particular, shooting drums seems to be where I have the most problems, and some drummers in particular hit very hard.

The only thing that I've been able to reliably fix with is fabric wrapped around the drives (sometimes a little, sometimes a lot).

As far as the discrepancy between having problems in the barricade and not having problems, this particular show had PA front-fills for the kids in the front row, as well stacks off to each side that those two cameras were constantly 3ft away from. Ear damaging loud.
 
Ah...that explains the challenges a lot more. Sounds like the db of sound was pretty high. Yes, cams next to drums get a lot of various high levels of vibration. That would be a good place for a RAM Drive. The sound levels were pretty darn high on our Journey concert production, but it sounds like yours were higher.

Were the drives right up front next to the stacks the only ones you experienced dropped frames with?

Beyond music production, we've been using the ET Shock Mounts extensively in high vibration situations, with no dropped frames, in helicopters, on boats, strapped on cars, on skateboards, etc.

Anyway, thanks for the added info Nate. I'll look forward to seeing the finished piece...
 
Steve Gibby said:
A
Were the drives right up front next to the stacks the only ones you experienced dropped frames with?
Click to expand...

During soundcheck most of the cams dropped, but we had handtowels and such on standby at most of the cams, and all of them solved it cept Charles and the other cam in the barricade.

I have two songs edited already. Wish I could share!
 
Steve- Thanks! I'll keep that in mind next time I'm in the bay area, and may I pass that along to Lee Utterbach for subrentals?

zak- I'll start putting loctite on the et mounts from now on. Thanks for that input. Did you get that battery back? Are you missing anything else? pm me if you are.
 
I had prepped the job with an ET mount but on the day the other one showed up. Then after I had configured the new one, a spare ET mount was handed to me. Honestly I don't like the idea of the "wobble mount" for Steadicam anyway, not good for whip pans and fast moves (the ones and zeroes benefit from it but unfortunately the physics of Steadicam are still analog...) CF cards are of course the way to go bu not for this job as Nate detailed.

The sound level was indeed monstrous. Even with earplugs jammed deep down and doublr muff coms on top of that, passing a foot away from those front fills was diabolical.
 
ayarbro said:
Steve- Thanks! I'll keep that in mind next time I'm in the bay area, and may I pass that along to Lee Utterbach for subrentals?
Click to expand...

I'm in L.A. weekly for business, or to fly out to somewhere, but my home (Pismo Beach) is almost exactly halfway between L.A. and the Bay Area - 3 hours drive either way.

I don't bare rent any of my equipment. Me or one of my assistants always comes along with it in some capacity, at least as a tech rep or DIT. I own three complete RED One systems, along with huge number of cool accessories for them. Within those parameters, sure, pass the info along to Lee. If you're in need, and I have stuff available, I'd be happy to bring some kits to the table.

I have both PL and Nikon mounts for all three cameras. Most of my kits are setup for mobile hybrid cine/EFP production, not necessarily straight cine narrative. They work really well for small crew, eye focusing, mobile, 2nd unit, B-roll, etc. I own three complete ET Mantis Shoulder Mount units, a short jib, several Cine Saddles, water housings, and all the cool gadgets to get the "hard to get" shots.
 
Zak,

I've never had a drive drop out of an ET Shock Mount - and I was one of the guys who proto tested them for 7 months before they even began to ship. We beat the snot out of them and rarely had dropped frames, and never had a drive come off. Are you sure you have the little side screws tight when you mount the shock mount on the drive? Your drive isn't upside down - which would make it easier to drop out?

I always mount my RED Drive/ET Shock Mount combo to the camera using an ET Speedy Clamp. The V-plate on the back of the shock mount snaps solidly into the Speedy Clamp - and never comes out until you push the release button. I have the Speedy Clamps in 15mm and 19mm, for whatever size rods I'm using that day.
 
Charles Papert said:
The sound level was indeed monstrous. Even with earplugs jammed deep down and doublr muff coms on top of that, passing a foot away from those front fills was diabolical.
Click to expand...

Been there, done that...it's kinda like standing behind a Boeing 747 when it begins it's takeoff roll. :-)
 
Steve Gibby said:
I've never had a drive drop out of an ET Shock Mount
Click to expand...

I think Zak is talking about a corner of the drive catching on something when running around handheld, and pulling the drive sliders out of their rubber o-ring standoffs.

I've had that happen quite a few times. Takes some dexterity to get it back together quickly.
 
OK...I see.

We do a lot of hand held. To prevent things like that from happening, my drive/mount combos are mounted on the smart side, either vertically or sometimes horizontally on a top or bottom rod. They are fit very close in to the camera body and within the contour of the body. They don't stick up above the camera, and not very far out from the camera, so we've never had a problem snagging them on anything. Me and my crews normal field use is about 60% hand held, and 40% on sticks or some other support (Cine Saddle, jib, etc.).

We really haven't had a problem with snagging the drive/mount on things and having it separate or the parts detach.
 
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