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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Typical 3 day week rental - the norm.

C

Charles Nader

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Quick question: Typical 3 day/week rental would consists of say pick up on Camera gear on Friday morning returned next Friday or the next Monday? Not the first Monday but the 2nd Monday. So, really is it 8 or 11 days?

Do you get the weekends free?

For 2 day rental - How many days or how does the schedule work?

Just want to clarify? what does red owner's use as a guide.
 
Japan is pretty much standardised on a sliding rental scale where the more you rent, the cheaper it gets. See my website for what that means.

No doubt LA is very different with the crazy amount of cameras an equipment in that particular corner of the world.... :)

Paul
 
IMHO No, you don't get two weekends for free. A week is a week. 7 days. 168 hours.

Personally, I also think Visceral Psyche's sliding scale makes more sense.
 
Pickup on Friday, return the following Friday in the morning. That's one week. A week is Friday-Thursday with the return the following morning. Go longer and it is additional days.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Pickup on Friday, return the following Friday in the morning. That's one week. A week is Friday-Thursday with the return the following morning. Go longer and it is additional days.
Click to expand...

And that means if you have to Fedex your gear back, you must use Priority shipping or pay for an extra day.
 
Okay...I was correct the first time. Friday pick up then return Friday morning.

So, how does it work for shipping. I heard the time it gets received to user/renter is the day the clock starts, correct or not?

2 day rental? means 4 days, correct?
 
charlesN said:
Okay...I was correct the first time. Friday pick up then return Friday morning.

So, how does it work for shipping. I heard the time it gets received to user/renter is the day the clock starts, correct or not?

2 day rental? means 4 days, correct?
Click to expand...

Where are you hearing this stuff? The week would be portal to portal, i.e. from when it leaves to when it gets back. You can certainly ask for that and see if they will allow and then you have effectively gotten an additional discount - but you can't expect it.

With our underwater housings, we often allow the rental to not count the shipping days, but we also usually require a minimum two day out of town rental. AND this is also because a) we are a manufacturer and so often have multiple units available (and a different cost structure) and b) we don't have the constant demand that you would normally have for camera gear and the rest.

We even will often let the customer use economy 3 day FEDEX if we don't have a schedule overlap - but with the understanding that the client will call us on the return day to confirm that we don't need it, and ship it priority overnight if we do.


You can ask for anything - and all of those things simply add up to being an additional discount. But if you do it constantly you will get the reputation of being a cheapskate that doesn't really want to let your suppliers make a decent living and/or provide the level of service they would like. Part of what you are paying for in a "normal" price rental is for the company to make a decent profit and be able to provide support, emergency backup and to go the extra mile when you really need it.

If you try to develop a relationship and let your rental company make a decent profit and not just beat everyone up and hunt for the best deal everytime. you will find your that company will generally give you decent deals on all of your business and be more willing to provide some extras - like when you say, "hey I'm not sure if I need a "whatever" on this shoot but it would be nice to have available", they might offer a contingency, or even a freebie. Or when you want to test some lenses, or just learn about a piece of equipment, or whatever, they will be a lot more open to spending some time with you.

Ultimately, business isn't just about prices. It is about building relationships so you can get what you need to get the job done - at a sufficient price that both of your bottom lines are sufficient to STAY in business.
 
For clarity, think of it from the rental house's perspective: How long is the gear out of the shop? It's not the rental house's issue if you are going to ship it across the country, drive it across town or shoot next door. It is simply the question of when does it leave the rental house and when does it come back. Yes there are deals and considerations that can be made and often are, but for clarity's sake this is the best way to think.

Out of town can lead to confusion. We get clients all the time who want some piece of specialty gear from us that their local rental house doesn't carry. Example: We'll get a call for a shoot that is on a Tuesday and they need a Phantom. They want it to ship out on Friday so that they can do a local checkout with it on Monday. They shoot all day Tuesday and won't be able to ship back until Wednesday which means we won't see it again until Thursday. So it is out from Abel for a solid week but the client wants to pay for one day! Homie don't play that.
 
Some RED users and some rental companies would do that...that's where I heard that.

So, Micheal...you mean all rental or producers don't ask for deals or bring down the price...they all are happy to pay top dollar for rentals. Sure, I understand you want to make a profit and making sure the gear is good and top notch form but as you know Clients are now more then ever really stretching the dollar because of the economy and its hard as a producer to give them what they want...but you know darn well, its not going to work. But you have to survive like everyone and pitch to all cast/crew and everyone involved with certain productions even rental houses with shipping or day rental to stream line the budget. It sucks...but we all have to do it. Its a team effort and when clients like your work & quality they will do another project with you and hopefully as the months or years go by, they have more money and bigger budget...that's where we make money. I hope.

I don't know your business but are you booming in this economy?..if so, great...if not, you have to work and yes, I agree use your relationships to survive; that's what all of us are doing now.

Doing the best we can under extreme circumstances.

Again, what would be a 2 day rental - 4 days.
 
I'm no big rental house by any means, but do rent equipment out on occasion and ship stuff here and there. I treat all my rentals as if the customer was picking them up directly, so as Mitch said above, time out of the shop is time out. Doesn't matter if the customer has it or if it's on a FedEx truck. Customer pays shipping costs. If I'm shipping gear anywhere, it typically becomes a 1-week minimum rental charge, plus shipping costs, just because of the scenario that Mitch outlines above.

That's standard practice as far as I've ever experienced and the baseline where most rental agreements start. Deals are sometimes made depending on the situation, customer, duration of rental, size of package being rented...

The one thing I've learned on these forums is that once the RED community is involved, all bets are off as to how such issues are handled. There are a lot of owner/operators out there who are desperate to rent their cameras at seemingly any cost. While these can seem like great options, you will get what you pay for. More often than not, you will be dealing with incomplete camera packages, little to no support, no guarantees of timely replacement equipment. The replacement equipment does become an issue for even the large rental houses once shipping is involved and distances require a day or more of transit time, lack of weekend deliveries, etc..

And just because the economy is in a slump, that doesn't mean everyone suddenly becomes desperate to cut their own throat and offer stupidly amazing deals. If there's no sensible amount of return on a rental, which at least covers the minimum wear and tear on the equipment, insurance costs, general overhead, then why would we even bother to rent it out? Yes, the economy is in the dumper, but insurance rates are still going up, camera equipment is still generally the same price to purchase...
 
There can always be room to cut some deals but it depends on a lot of factors. Are you a steady client? Do you have a big rental? Do you have a long rental? What is my inventory on the items you are renting? Have we paid off those items or are we still working on the ROI? Do I have lots of requests for these items so I might be making more money from another client? On and on.

This is why there are standard book rates and then there are the deals that we may or may not be willing to work with you on. Some longtime clients get a "standard discount." Some items we do not discount at all. A filter has a different ROI schedule than a lens. There are vastly different deals that we can afford to give.
 
As a producer, I've rented gear from big houses, and I've never included shipping days in the rental if you're going to have the stuff for several paid days. Now I say never, not as policy, but because the houses have always been very pleasant about being flexible on calculating days. They bring it up and offer to ship a day early or whatnot--I've never needed to ask for a deal.

I'm always pleasant and professional, explain the shoot or the logistics, and the conversation invariably leads to a mutual understanding. Reasonable people like to build relationships with other reasonable people.

Chris
 
charlesN said:
Some RED users and some rental companies would do that...that's where I heard that.
Click to expand...

Of course some rental companies do that and as I said we OFTEN do that. But my understanding of your question was "is it the norm?", "can it be expected?" and I think the answers are "no" and "no".

Now if your question is: "Is it reasonable for me to ask and not be treated like I'm a schmuch?" Then the answer is "yes" it is completely reasonable and I would normally ASK the same thing - but I wouldn't EXPECT it - as I said, I would consider that it is a favor, or an accommodation, or in effect a discount. If I have misunderstood your question, then by all means ignore my answer.

I had a customer recently ask about renting my REDONE body for backup and if I had heard of a "sealed contingency rental" and I said no, I haven't actually heard of anyone doing it but I understood right away what they were getting at and told them I thought it was completely reasonable and would consider it. The idea is that the RED is a bit unreliable and productions would like to have a backup on hand (or if they aren't sure if they will have a chance to get to a particular scene that requires multiple cameras), so if the normal rental rate is say $550/day they would pay $250/day contingency rental and only pay the higher rate if they had to actually "break the seal" and use the camera. Since there are so many REDs out there not being used constantly I think this is a good and reasonable way to make a little money and provide good backup.

The point is if you get a reputation for being fair and reasonable you will build lasting relationships and probably regularly get the good customer discount - almost without asking.
 
In Europe, if we had the gear booked for a week, we picked it up Friday afternoon and returned it Monday morning the week after the rented week. Lighting and camera that is.

Never had a problem, especially because we know them so well already.
 
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