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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Two Weeks... Change is COMING!!

Thor Wixom said:
Thanks for the info, David.

It's good for everyone to have accurate information about their options.

-Thor
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Agreed. Cineform really offer a fantastic workflow that intergrates neatly into Pr, and other NLE's too.

Jay how excited are you about the SDK?
 
Great news,

wanna see what apple do with SDK.
 
Mark, (OffHollywood)

How long have you had r3d working with Adobe working in the house?

David
 
Christopher Grant Harvey said:
Agreed. Cineform really offer a fantastic workflow that intergrates neatly into Pr, and other NLE's too.

Jay how excited are you about the SDK?
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Pretty damn excited. One thing I know will be supported that matters a lot to me is SOUND.

Truth be told there is a lot being done that I am NOT aware of. I only know of 4 or 5 things but I also know, that it's reasonable to expect vaious software engineers to begin offering solutions with the same intensity as those that have been working on the hardware side.

As far as Adobe's support of R3D files goes.... I dunno. It's a cool thing that's for sure, but there's a lot to this and I am not sure exactly what Adobe's planning. The CONCEPT sounds nice, but I have learned in my time with RED that the devil is in the details. As others have commented, RED's file forrmat is good for shooting, but for editing? I dunno...

For now, I'm happy to let the chips fall where they may.

I am a major Cineform supporter, I don't work for them, but I see a lot of value in the solutions that have created for RED. They have done all they can in their little room, and once they are set loose, and are allowed to run with all the advantages of customer feedback, I expect amazing things (no pressure David... Actually, yes... Pressure.. LOT'S of pressure!)

However they are not the only ones. I know this. There are developers on both sides of the aisle (PC and MAC) waiting to run.

One major thing that the SDK will provide is the ability for Cineform and others to import RED's LOOK files. This has the potential to cut down a lot of time in regards to footage delivery to clients. I like this.

14 days or less... How excited? Very excited.

Jay
 
The thing with Adobe is if they decide to support a feature (like redcode support) they have to implement it across all the applications equally AND across the PC and Mac platforms. :ohmy:

This is what would take them a long time but it would pay off in the long run.

As for Cineform I have only ever had amazing support and not to mention a really fast mostly realtime workflow. I am sure their planned C-RAW for redcode will be just as smooth as it is for HD albeit more of a stress on the hard drives & CPU, but certainly a big improvement over native r3d editing.
 
Also, keep in mind the impact that having a RAW format on the timeline presents to the user experience.

What I mean is, this. In Photoshop the typical process is to open a RAW photo into a "developing" plugin that gives you control over color balance, exposure, ISO, etc. You then bake those settings into the "digital negative", and import the "developed" print into Photoshop.

This same process *should* be mirrored (in some fashion) in any application that attempts to "natively" use R3D files. For every clip, and even potentially for every frame within that clip, you need the option of specifying exposure, ISO, color balance, etc. within the timeline.

This presents some significant issues that need to be addressed by Adobe (or any one else) in how these options are presented to the user, and what kind of impact those decisions have on the application.

As a "easy button" example, you import the R3D file as an unprocessed, 16-bit image, and use standard color tools to do all of your color balance, exposure compensation, curves, etc.. But then you lose the benefit of the metadata in the camera (what is the point of setting your white balance, if you have to manually compensate for it in your color tools in your NLE).

On the opposite front, you can handle footage the same way that Quicktime Proxy's do.. You bake the metadata into every frame before you hand the image to the NLE, in which case, you lose the benefit of the RAW data.

Or do you develop an Adobe R3D plugin, so every clip you import into the NLE, you have to sift through a dialog of options, like you do with RAW Photos?

I've been struggling with these issues for the last 3 months as it relates to the NLE that I develop for, and trust me.. It gets ugly in a hurry. It's a complicated issue, and there really isn't a single right or wrong answer, and different companies will have different solutions. The dust of the RED SDK will be settling for a while, I suspect.
 
i seriously don't see how you guys stand cineform.. it's crap. it's litterally crap. i keep getting multiple errors.. freezes... and whatnot. i even get those with redcine on pc.. and redalert. i seriously dislike cineform.. ever since cineform hd.

i would not recommend anyone to use pc with red footage. just go plain old mac with fcs. i know fcs sucks ass.. but hey.. atleast they were cooperative with red.

i'm not going the adobe way unless i see native r3d support in both pr and ae. if i get soundbooth support.. all the merrier.
 
Akube,

There is nothing more frustrating when something doesn't work, but there are probably simple solutions for all your problems. Just know that all the good things you hear about CineForm are really true and that once you experience it for yourself you will be so, so happy.
 
lunacie said:
And realtime is possible right now in the form of render servers. Throw a 1U rack with 64 3.x ghz cores (i.e. 8 blades w. 8 cores each) at your clip via Redline and you should be looking at greater than realtime:
jt
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I'd rather take the system optimized to harvest 4 ATI 4870's.
 
Akube said:
i seriously don't see how you guys stand cineform.. it's crap. it's litterally crap. i keep getting multiple errors.. freezes... and whatnot. i even get those with redcine on pc.. and redalert. i seriously dislike cineform.. ever since cineform hd.

i would not recommend anyone to use pc with red footage. just go plain old mac with fcs. i know fcs sucks ass.. but hey.. atleast they were cooperative with red.

i'm not going the adobe way unless i see native r3d support in both pr and ae. if i get soundbooth support.. all the merrier.
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It's your gentle approach I love so much.....
 
Akube,
I bet 2 goats you will change your mind.
But in the remote case you win promise you will use those animals only for milk or meat, hu?
 
I know I have a "rep" for being pro PC and not likeing MACs very much.

As I have said HUNDREDS of times, I am pro PC, but I like MACs too.. I just like them better on someone else's desk. :)

I have used MACs for many things, and will continue to do so.

I do not believe the SDK will be useful for PC users only. We simply stand to see the largest improvement because we have had the least development since RED's introduction.

As for Akube's gentle and compassionate review of Cineform, all I can tell you is that when I was using it way back when, it was flawless. There were a couple of bugs VERY early on, but the were squashed quickly, and it was great.

I expect even more when it comes out after the SDK.

It's not my choices I am worried about so much as the choices of my producers. I was asked to shoot an interview yesterday (See attached) and I had to deal with "what system are you on? What are you editing with? How do you want it? blah, blah, blah, blah" Really I need to get this more braindead so as to not freak out the employers. Red Rush is a FINE step in that direction.

Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
9 days guys... 9 days!!

Change is coming!

Jay
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Are you forgetting.

"All things in life change, including our specs and deadlines"

Do you really think the current red post stranglehold that post partners have will open up in 9 days?

I would imagine Apple would have a NLE announcement before they let Red open up the doors.

I really wish Scratch would have been marketed for the masses rather then the elite. They would have easily sold thousands of seats and made money on each with yearly updates.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
I have it on fairly decent authority that the current schedule will hold...

So there!

Jay
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Hmmmmmm

Wasn't this promised and then taken away once before? I seem to remember a guy named Jay blowing a gasket about it.
 
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