TS-PRO Shift and Tilt

[Martin Widerberg]

Try some architectual shots.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Just crank them to there max and see what happens

Mark,

Plan on shooting with the volume at "11" not much point shooting with Blad glass if we you can't bend it. The hard part is finding the time. Trusty "Old Red" is still working hard. It will be a shame when I have to take Old Red out the back and put a bullet in his head when the new pup arrives.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

I have shot a test day with the Horseman system and it went very well and it worked a treat. We also shot with Nikon Shift and Tilt glass as a comparison. Processing, grading, editing and writing at the moment and will publish in a few weeks

 

[Christopher Barrett]

Tom what glass are you using on the Horseman? I've been really intrigued by that system. I just canibalized my view camera the other day for similar effect....

 

[Tom Gleeson]

We used Hassleblad glass for the actual shoot as the 75mm rear flange depth makes the Blad glass the only one recommended by a horseman if you want infinity focus. A few days after the shoot we tried removing the Epics lens mount allowing the Horseman to push back a considerable distance and we tried a Mamiya 24mm lens and was easily able to focus to infinity and have room to swing and tilt. Not a trick you could try on the Alexa. More info coming but big job collating everything.

Love your mod and I would also love to hear and see more. Is this setup stable or would vibration or camera movement create a wobble between the glass and camera?

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Do any of the view cameras have Hassleblad mounts?

 

[Christopher Barrett]

I recall that you could get CF mounts in Sinar and Arca Lensboards... probably Cambo too. The drag with view camera lenses is a lot of them are f/5.6 or f/8 max aperture. My setup is stable enough if the camera is static. Wind could be an issue. Interiors would be best.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Large format lenses probably have too large a rear flange depth and a coverage way beyond what you would need. This forces you into lenses that are too long and slow. Medium formatt glass is a better compromise. I was wondering if there were cheaper older view cameras that could have the rear removed and the articulated front mounted on a rail you would have a poor mans shift and tilt. You would need of course to be able to fit a medium format lens mount preferably in my case Hassleblad. I am afraid I know very little of the technology in large and medium formats.

 

[Shane Kelly]

Large format lenses probably have too large a rear flange depth and a coverage way beyond what you would need. This forces you into lenses that are too long and slow. Medium formatt glass is a better compromise. I was wondering if there were cheaper older view cameras that could have the rear removed and the articulated front mounted on a rail you would have a poor mans shift and tilt. You would need of course to be able to fit a medium format lens mount preferably in my case Hassleblad. I am afraid I know very little of the technology in large and medium formats.

The system that I am using is a cambo 4 x 5 sc view camera. The rail that this mounts on is actually the same size as 1" 8020 extruded aluminium so it's easy to make a rig to attach the epic. Front lens boards can be fitted with a mount if you are handy with a dremel. I was thinking of going pentax 645 as the lenses are cheap.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

chris,

I have attached some images of cameras and was wondering what you think of using these? You would need to remove the front camera component cutting the bellows and adding a black skirt that would light seal the Epic. Then modifying it so it mounts on 15mm rails. I assume you need a lens board and you would to buy and fit a Hassleblad lens mount. Am I crazy?

 

[Shane Kelly]

chris,

I have attached some images of cameras and was wondering what you think of using these? You would need to remove the front camera component cutting the bellows and adding a black skirt that would light seal the Epic. Then modifying it so it mounts on 15mm rails. I assume you need a lens board and you would to buy and fit a Hassleblad lens mount. Am I crazy?

No crazier than the rest of us.
You only need the front"standard" as it is called. Then, a "bag bellows" instead of the traditional type bellows.This is because you will need to get closer to the camera with the rear of the lens and a bag bellows will allow you to do that. For experimentation purposes you could just sew two squarse of light tight fabric together.
Getting rid of the rail is not a good idea as that's your focus knob. I extended the rail and mounted the camera to that as well. Or, depending on the system you could mount the rail at 90degrees to the side. If you are picking up an old large format camera make sure that you don't go too big, a 4x5 system will be sufficient. Cambo made a good one.

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Horseman Test shoot

Horseman Test shoot

Ok Here it is the Horseman TS-Pro test and also Nikon Shift and Tilt lenses.
http://vimeo.com/35189673 This stuff is a lot of work but glad to say there are now low cost Shift and Tilt systems available. Not to mention the features of View cameras are available to cinema cameras. Before making any comments or judgements best to read the written report that goes with the video http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26962429/Horseman%20Write%20up.pdf

 

[Tom Gleeson]

Hassleblad

Hassleblad

A frame from the test shoot using Hassleblad 80mm on the Horseman

 

[PatrickFaith]

Ok Here it is the Horseman TS-Pro test and also Nikon Shift and Tilt lenses.
http://vimeo.com/35189673 This stuff is a lot of work but glad to say there are now low cost Shift and Tilt systems available. Not to mention the features of View cameras are available to cinema cameras. Before making any comments or judgements best to read the written report that goes with the video http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26962429/Horseman Write up.pdf

Reviving this thread a bit, but I'm just about to buy this and was wondering if you (or anyone else that has been using a bellows tilt/shift) have any other comments. I really appreciate the write up you did on the pdf, especially your comments on how the different lens elements fit

 

[Nick Morrison]

That is a super cool system. If you want to try tilt shifting, you can always get a cheap Hasselblad T/S adapter on ebay. I use em all the time.

 

[PatrickFaith]

That is a super cool system. If you want to try tilt shifting, you can always get a cheap Hasselblad T/S adapter on ebay. I use em all the time.

Those look super cool. Since I mainly have nikon still lenses I'm going to start off there. In Tom's write up he said he really like the Hasselblad lenses, what would be a good starting medium format Hasselblad lens that would work well with this system connected to a epic?

 

[Tom Gleeson]

After doing these tests I think I would just buy into 35mm Shift and tilts. The Nikon Shift and Tilts had better contrast and sharpness over the Hassleblad lenses. Of course the Blad glass does give a nice creamy pastel look if thats what you need. The extra shift and tilt that the Horseman is capable of is not that usefull as its becomes too distorted. If you own a set of Meduim format lenses then maybe the Horseman makes sense. You can rent the S/T glass from photographic rental houses very cheaply if you want to play and see what they are capable of.

 

[Nick Morrison]

After doing these tests I think I would just buy into 35mm Shift and tilts. The Nikon Shift and Tilts had better contrast and sharpness over the Hassleblad lenses. Of course the Blad glass does give a nice creamy pastel look if thats what you need. The extra shift and tilt that the Horseman is capable of is not that usefull as its becomes too distorted. If you own a set of Meduim format lenses then maybe the Horseman makes sense. You can rent the S/T glass from photographic rental houses very cheaply if you want to play and see what they are capable of.

The only advantage the Hassy's have is:

1) Very low distortion, as you are shooting through the middle 25% of glass
2) If you shoot on later Hasseblad lenses with newer serials (ie in the 7xx-xxx range), you will get more contrast as the older coatings are more lowcon and flare more (similar to Contax)
3) You can tilt shift over a much LONGER range of focal lengths....ie I have a set of modded Hassy primes from 50mm to 250mm and have a doubler, so i can tilt shift at 500mm. Also, I have a 110 f2 that will BLOW your mind tilted. Whereas most full frame glass tilts just at 35, 45 and 90, though now Canon (and I beleive Nikon) also have a 24 and 17 (those wides are SUPER AWESOME....would love to get one)

But yeah. I think using regular full frame or MF primes with adapters is probably much easier and affordable than the horsemen, especially if as you say it stops being useful once it gets too distorted!!

 

[PatrickFaith]

Thanks Nick & Tom, I have some pretty complex post processing I will be doing with the shift, so I need a bunch of extra controls then the standard shifters. Crossing my fingers it all works. If anything else, I will have to do a couple of shots in the film with it just for onset publicity photographs (I'm sure the camera will look very cool with the bellows)


BTW I bought the horseman pro system. Overall i really like it, but it really is a fairly narrow tool that is only good for specific shots. For example i'm using it for almost "macro" telephoto shots … like if you want a macro type shot of a moving flower but need to adjust focus depth direction using a motion control system. With the Nikon setup it's really good on shots between 2 inches and 20 feet(and 20 feet is with 160mm plus lenses). Also for nikon, you have to use the older manual lenses (electronic setups are non-functional). It isn't really workable when your shooting something farther then 20 feet, because the assembly can't get that close to the epic. Overall it is pro kit, and by pro i mean hard to use but a awesome tool for specific shots, and requires skill to get those shots. I have a bunch of shots of vegetables and close ups of musical instruments for my film, and i'm sure those shots will pop on the screen using this.