Truly Professional H264 .mov Encoder ?

[Gabriele Turchi]

Knowing that x264 doe good job (but i still quite can't figure out what is the best way to use it : (i tried hand break , but results was not so happy )

i am wondering what encoder is considered top notch and professional to create H264 MOV , for instance the kind of quality that is available on iTunes/apple TV rental

I use Matrox compress HD , and even if does a good job , sometime does some pretty big fuck up (bi pixelations etc...(there are some scene changes that i am NOT able to get properly encoded using that card ... and i have to say that using the latest compressor 4 , even if the speed is zoo slow , the quality is more precise than Compress HD matrox ...

i think that segment re-encoding is the way to get an high quality H264 (so boosting data rate on specific scenes ) as well as multi passes (more the 2)

i am wondering what kind of system is used to achieve the apple Tv H264 quality , that pack in 1.6 GB a 2h HD Movie with pretty stunning results

as far as i know sony blu code does H264 and segment re-encoding , but i think only for H264 Blu ray compliant ...


does anyone know how achieve truly professional H264 .mov ?

As i said , many encoder does good job , but sometimes some scenes require re-encoding (suing different settings ) so i guess segment re-encoding is truly a must ...

thanks a lot

g

 

[Alexander Mejia]

For Apple, the encoding black box that you send your media to is a closely guarded secret.

If I had to take a guess, they would be using a professional encoder like MainConcept to make the masters, or their own special h.264 encoder that they rolled them selves. They do have hundreds of engineers that work there

After that they multiplex the video stream, or just stuff it into a .mp4 container.

Even apple doesn't deliver Quicktime files as deliverables to the consumer. You shouldn't either.

 

[Gabriele Turchi]

what is real world difference between delivering an H264 wrapped as .mov versus an H264 wrapped as .mp4 ?

thanks
g

 

[Alexander Mejia]

what is real world difference between delivering an H264 wrapped as .mov versus an H264 wrapped as .mp4 ?

a .mp4 is supported by consumers electronics, while .mov isn't

The containers are different enough to warrant a compatbility issue, even if the stream inside is fully compatible.

Also on PC's .mov files get decoded by Quicktime, which isn't a very good h.264 decoder for windows.

 

[Brian Iannone]

The best H.264 encoder I've found so far is the MainConcept H.264 encoder used in Sorenson Squeeze. Adobe Media Encoder's H.264 encoder was improved in CS6, however I haven't done any thorough tests yet.

 

[Nick Morrison]

I work in broadcast cable, and everyone I know uses SORENSON SQUEEZE to make our .H264 deliverables. Like Brian said, the MainConcept encoder engine does appear to be best of the many Sorenson provides. Use at least 8000kbps, and a 2-Pass VBR.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gabriele Turchi]

well , 8 mbit/s is quite high nitrate for a good H264 delivery ... the HD Movies rented on iTunes use an average Bitrate of 4 - 4.5 ... and looks ""perfect "" ....

i honestly tried main concept codec in squeeze (as well using the main concept encoder ) and i found the quality not good at all (unless using 10 Mbs bitrate)

I am wondering if they use something like : bLu code , or cinema craft or cinevision .. and that they re-wrap as mp4 ...

g

 

[Brian Iannone]

By the way, for 1080p deliverables, I typical use 10 Mbps 2-pass VBR or multi-pass CBR (which does four to six passes) at High Profile, Level 4.1. If I'm encoding something that I know won't be used on mobile devices (only computers), then I'll use Level 5.1 at 10-20 Mbps.

Also, iTunes 1080p media is encoded at a total audio and video data rate of 3.9-4.5 Mbps in H.264 High Profile, Level 4.0 (minimum).

 

[Gabriele Turchi]

hi brian ,
but 10 Mbps constant data rate produce quite big file size , probably something around 80 MB/minute ...

what i am noticing is that iTunes HD content are around 35MB/minute and looks almost perfect ...

so my point here is that i quite can't find any encoder (i have not had the chance to test Blu code / cinevision / cinema craft HD ) that produce a great image having 35MB/minute file size ...

otherwise even Matrox compress HD does a great Job having 90MB/minute file size encoded H264...

g

g

 

[Brian Iannone]

hi brian ,
but 10 Mbps constant data rate produce quite big file size , probably something around 80 MB/minute ...

what i am noticing is that iTunes HD content are around 35MB/minute and looks almost perfect ...

so my point here is that i quite can't find any encoder (i have not had the chance to test Blu code / cinevision / cinema craft HD ) that produce a great image having 35MB/minute file size ...

otherwise even Matrox compress HD does a great Job having 90MB/minute file size encoded H264...

g

g

Ah okay, I see. So you're looking to end up with a file in the 5 Mbps range? I had thought that you were just looking for H.264 encoder recommendations.

What devices will you be delivering to? Also, you said that you had previously tried the MainConcept H.264 encoder in Sorenson Squeeze, but weren't impressed by the quality. What version of Squeeze were you using?

If you were to encode a file to H.264 at High Profile, Level 4.0/4.1, it should look just as good as iTunes' 1080p content.

 

[Alexander Mejia]

x264 encoder will get you very good quality in a small filesize today. Each encoder does different things to optimize where the bits are spent, so run tests on your material with different encoders.

You'll find the h264 encoder one bundled with Quicktime Pro to be least efficent, while you'll find x264 to be the most efficent, with most of the encoders falling somewhere inbetween.

If this is your final master deliverable that needs to stand the test of time spend the extra time, getting an uncompressed file out of your NLE, and run that through x264 into an .mp4 container.

If this is just a proxy for review, just export whatever is quick out of your NLE.

 

[Nathan Goods]

x264 encoder will get you very good quality in a small filesize today. Each encoder does different things to optimize where the bits are spent, so run tests on your material with different encoders.

You'll find the h264 encoder one bundled with Quicktime Pro to be least efficent, while you'll find x264 to be the most efficent, with most of the encoders falling somewhere inbetween.

If this is your final master deliverable that needs to stand the test of time spend the extra time, getting an uncompressed file out of your NLE, and run that through x264 into an .mp4 container.

If this is just a proxy for review, just export whatever is quick out of your NLE.

I usually use compressor from FCP 7, can you direct me to something better?

Thanks

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I am wondering if they use something like : bLu code , or cinema craft or cinevision .. and that they re-wrap as mp4 ...

g

It seems reasonable to expect media providers like these using more advanced five-figure turnkey systems, enabling higher compression efficiency, while requiring in-depth clip analysis and compression optimisation through segment by segment approach.

 

[Alexander Mejia]

I usually use compressor from FCP 7, can you direct me to something better?

Thanks

An expensive solution would be to buy Sorenson Squeeze for $800+ http://www.sorensonmedia.com/video-encoding/compare/ It containes a licensed version of the main concept encoder, and it looks like you can do draft outputs via GPU encoding as well.

A cheaper solution would be to spend some time learning the free tools like handbrake which uses x264 to encode.

If you're only encoding a few files that need to stand the test of time over many years, try outsourcing your masters to a professional. You may find it cheaper than buying the latest software each year, and the pros keep their stuff up to date, and can even consult you on how to give the best delivery for the medium you're delivering to.