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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Tripods

Stephen, I have that exact model tripod and legs. It's a fine tripod. It worked really well when I had a lighter camera. However, I'd be really concerned that a fully loaded Scarlet will be too much weight for that head. Like I said in my post above, my head already gets to be unstable with my loaded rig using that head.
 
Aaron Newsome said:
Stephen, I have that exact model tripod and legs. It's a fine tripod. It worked really well when I had a lighter camera. However, I'd be really concerned that a fully loaded Scarlet will be too much weight for that head. Like I said in my post above, my head already gets to be unstable with my loaded rig using that head.
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I am wondering what folks think a "fully loaded" Scarlet might weigh in at. I seem to recall the weight estimate for the Epic brain is about 6 lbs and I think the Scarlet is expected to be a little less? Any ideas on the weight of the fixed lens? With monitor, battery, etc., any guesses on a range of weights?
 
Aaron Newsome said:
Stephen, I have that exact model tripod and legs. It's a fine tripod. It worked really well when I had a lighter camera. However, I'd be really concerned that a fully loaded Scarlet will be too much weight for that head. Like I said in my post above, my head already gets to be unstable with my loaded rig using that head.
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That's strange Aaron, I'm using mine with an EX1S, FF & Mattebox and have no such problems. Check out the review from my last post and you'll see a JVC GY-100 series on it. What camera are you using on yours?
 
Adam, when I first purchased the Libec, I was using it with a JVC-100. Even fully loaded with an Anton Bauer battery kit, lectrosonics wireless receiver and my Ikan 8" LCD, the Libec was very solid and very stable with the JVC camera. I think the JVC body is very light. A few pounds if I remember right.

My current camera is Thomson Viper. The body weighs around 10 pounds. Fully loaded the rig is over 25 pounds. That is Marshall 7" LCD, wireless receiver, lens, red rock matte box, rails, red rock follow focus, anton bauer battery and usually my litepanels mini for an eyelight.

I would imagine that a scarlet with battery, lens, recorder module, i/o module, rails, mattebox, follow focus, mic, etc will be approaching 20 pounds.

If you guys don't think so then I'm ok with that. I was just trying to save someone the trouble of buying a tripod like I did, and then needing to replace it because the gear is heavier than the head is rated.

By all means though, the libec is an excellent tripod in my opinion, especially at that price.
 
Ben Coleman said:
I have the Manfrotto 503HDV kit and I do like it. The 501 head is a little lightweight but the 503 is nice for a HPX170 or EX1 in my opinion. I think the biggest selling point to me other than the price was the LED lit bubble. I set up in dark places alot and it is nice not to have to go for the flashlight to see the bubble.
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I'm a little curious about the 503HDV: How well does the adjustable spring work for very lightweight cameras? What is the lightest camera you've used?

Thanks
JohnG
 
Aaron Newsome said:
Adam, when I first purchased the Libec, I was using it with a JVC-100. Even fully loaded with an Anton Bauer battery kit, lectrosonics wireless receiver and my Ikan 8" LCD, the Libec was very solid and very stable with the JVC camera. I think the JVC body is very light. A few pounds if I remember right.

My current camera is Thomson Viper. The body weighs around 10 pounds. Fully loaded the rig is over 25 pounds. That is Marshall 7" LCD, wireless receiver, lens, red rock matte box, rails, red rock follow focus, anton bauer battery and usually my litepanels mini for an eyelight.

I would imagine that a scarlet with battery, lens, recorder module, i/o module, rails, mattebox, follow focus, mic, etc will be approaching 20 pounds.

If you guys don't think so then I'm ok with that. I was just trying to save someone the trouble of buying a tripod like I did, and then needing to replace it because the gear is heavier than the head is rated.

By all means though, the libec is an excellent tripod in my opinion, especially at that price.
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That explains things. I think it's all about the right tool for the job. If anyone intends to use the either of the 2/3 Scarlets for Indie or ENG work, then I think the Libec represents outstanding value. Different matter entirely if you are looking at the other Scarlets/Epic with heavy lenses and a cinema style rig - say Arri MB & FF etc. You'd be crazy to use it in those circumstances. I'd never sit a Viper on one that's for sure! :biggrin:
 
Aaron Newsome said:
I would imagine that a scarlet with battery, lens, recorder module, i/o module, rails, mattebox, follow focus, mic, etc will be approaching 20 pounds.
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Well I'm only going for the Fixed Scarlet, which should only be something like 4 to 5 KG, and I'm guessing the only other accessories I'd have would be a battery and perhaps eventually rails and a mattebox (together maybe 1 to 2 kg?). I'll be recording to CF most of the time I think so I should be able to keep the setup under the 8KG (16 pounds) max weight that the Libec carries (according to the website).

If I was going for a s35 Scarlet setup though, you're right that it would be quite difficult to keep under that weight though!
 
Stephen Strangways said:
That's a photo tripod. The head is not a fluid head in the least, so you really wouldn't want to use it for video, it's not meant for smooth panning or tilting.
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Might be handy for the "I need something that I can carry in my backpack and just has to hold up the camera" kind of need though. Apart from a good tripod like the Libec, I am looking for a good tripod for travelling that serves this purpose on the cheap, and something like that would be good because I really need to replace my still tripod too...
 
I've ended up having a lot of experience with a wide range of tripods over the years. I've covered the Manfrotto range from the 501 to the 526, worked with Miller, Sachtler and rented O'Connor and Cartoni heads that sell for nearly $15,000.

Here's what I've learned:

1) Don't use a head that's too light for the camera setup. If the camera is far too heavy, you'll have an uncontrollable mess, and you'll wish you had just stayed in bed that day. If the camera is almost too heavy but seems okay on the spec sheet, you'll be fine at limited tilt angles, but as soon as you tilt beyond that, gravity will take over and pull the angle further, and you'll have to resort to sliding the camera wildly forward or back, or trying to reconfigure where accessories sit to re-balance the mass and try to get control back.

2) Don't use a head that's too heavy for the camera setup. A good fluid head will have a counterbalance system, and if your camera package is too light (or the center of gravity is too low) you'll be fine at limited tilt angles, but as soon as you tilt beyond that, you'll have the opposite problem to gravity, as you'll be fighting a spring that's pushing back too hard, and it will take a lot of muscle to push and hold the camera to the tilt angle you want.

3) If you are working in a situation where you can't try another take because you screwed up the tripod move, whether that's because the event is live, or because you're on a professional shoot and you'll have twenty people or more standing around wondering why you're getting paid so much if you can't even pan the camera smoothly without blowing it half the time, you need to spend some decent money on a tripod.

There used to be an old rule of thumb of how much to spend on a tripod, as a percentage of the cost of the camera. Well, advances in electronics have meant that cameras have dropped in price significantly, but the mechanical engineering behind tripods doesn't obey Moore's Law, so the prices have stayed the same.

Personally, I'm planning to own a fixed-lens Scarlet, and will also own a tripod to go with it. I am looking at a couple of options now, and and they're $2,500 to $3,000. It may seem like a lot compared to a $4,750 camera, but that's what it will cost to get a top-performing tripod and head that will allow me to do my job properly.

I know it will be a worthwhile long term investment, as good tripods will outlast the cameras they are purchased for. So, as long as you don't radically change the weight range of camera package you are using, you're set for many pleasant and productive years.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
Might be handy for the "I need something that I can carry in my backpack and just has to hold up the camera" kind of need though.
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Yeah, if everything you are shooting is locked-off, it could work. I just wouldn't want to do much panning with it, and I'd never dream of doing tilts.

Seriously though, is someone in the market for a $4,750 Scarlet really stuck with a tripod budget of under $100?
 
Stephen Strangways said:
I've ended up having a lot of experience with a wide range of tripods over the years. I've covered the Manfrotto range from the 501 to the 526, worked with Miller, Sachtler and rented O'Connor and Cartoni heads that sell for nearly $15,000.
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Can you give any advice or comments on a Miller DS20 vs Cartoni F100 ?
 
Stephen Strangways said:
Seriously though, is someone in the market for a $4,750 Scarlet really stuck with a tripod budget of under $100?
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I never would suggest using that as a primary tripod. It's just that the tripod I'm getting (the Libec or something similar) will be large and heavy, so I am looking at also getting something cheap for throwing in a backpack and using with a stripped down fixed Scarlet setup while I travel overseas later this year. I was thinking some cheap legs with a Manfrotto 501 or something but even that head is a bit chunky for that... Any suggestions?
 
Stephen Gentle said:
Well I'm only going for the Fixed Scarlet, which should only be something like 4 to 5 KG, and I'm guessing the only other accessories I'd have would be a battery and perhaps eventually rails and a mattebox (together maybe 1 to 2 kg?). I'll be recording to CF most of the time I think so I should be able to keep the setup under the 8KG (16 pounds) max weight that the Libec carries (according to the website).

If I was going for a s35 Scarlet setup though, you're right that it would be quite difficult to keep under that weight though!
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For a Scarlet set-up, consider using the big brother of the Libec LS-38. I have used the LS-55 for some time and like it a lot. It will hold a little more weight than the LS-38 (about 22 lbs., if memory serves me) and I think the head is a little nicer for not that much more money. I think the newer version might be the LS-58 but I am not sure.

Terry
 
J Davis said:
Can you give any advice or comments on a Miller DS20 vs Cartoni F100 ?
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The Cartoni Focus is a nice smooth fluid movement, I'm quite happy to use it, and I've heard many rave reviews from users. The sliding tripod plate attachment can be a bit fiddly, though.

I've heard of quality problems with them, from users on forums, and a few of the reviews:
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=178
Although some of the reviews are nothing but glowing:
http://dvxuser.com/articles/cartfocus/
It's enough to make me test out a Focus head before renting one, and wouldn't buy one until I could find out for sure if, say, the early heads had design or manufacturing problems that have now been solved, thus explaining the split in user comments on them. You might want to ask the company, as they are quite responsive. And as far as their other products go, the Lambda is my favourite head so far for underslung use on a jib, and I've never had problems.

The only time I've used a Miller DS head was a DS5 with a full size Sony XDCAM (one of the shoulder-mount ENG style PDWF335L or something similar) and that was woefully inadequate for a camera that size and weight. It was simply a case of a company buying the camera and then cheaping out on a tripod that would have worked for smaller cameras, but not that one, and I got stuck with it on a shoot. I held my breath with every camera move, as the camera downright wobbled on the head.
However, I'm sure it would be just fine with an appropriate-sized camera.

The DS20 looks like an appropriate head for a Scarlet or similar, but in my opinion, in terms of design, features, and control, Miller's Compass line would be more comparable to the Focus. The DS20 is fluid drag with friction boost... like the Manfrotto 503, it's one fluid setting with a teflon plate or something that you just screw down harder on to add friction, and that usually brings stiction with it, which is not your friend. You also are limited to two counterbalance settings.
The Compass 15, by comparison, has 5 fluid drag settings as well as off, and 4 counterbalance settings.

The Cartoni Focus has continuous fluid drag and continuous counterbalance. The Focus vs. the Compass 15? I couldn't say, I've never used the Compass, but I'd pick either of those over the DS20 any day.

The other head in that range that you might want to look at is the Sachtler FSB 8.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
I was thinking some cheap legs with a Manfrotto 501 or something but even that head is a bit chunky for that... Any suggestions?
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I've got a 501, it was what I started with when I had a DVX100, and I still use it as a second camera support. You can get some good results if you keep the friction boost low, work the head all around before using it, and use some good operating technique (I like to also use a second pan handle on the left side, facing forwards, so I am operating with one hand on each side, and front and back, for very even control, the same way offsetting your grip with something like a fig rig can help.)

The Miller DS5 weighs the same, but if my memory serves me, it is slimmer. It's more expensive though, if you are looking for a cheaper second tripod.

The smaller Manfrotto 701HDV will support 9.5 lbs, which I think would be sufficient for the majority of 2/3" Scarlet configurations (but it' all speculation at this point) and if you wanted to cut costs further, the older Manfrotto 128RC will hold 8.75 pounds and will certainly outperform any photo head, like on that Bushnell.
You could put that on some basic 190 legs or, if you wanted the ability to level the head without adjusting the legs, get one of the MDeVe tripods, like the 755XB.

You'd be looking at about $200 bare minimum, $400 for something a little easier to work with, and $500 if you want the ability to support a heavier camera package.
 
The Libec LS-38 tripod is an odd egg.

In most respects it really is a great deal, but its limitations may cancel out the benefits. Lack of drag control and adjustable counter balance is basically unacceptable in a fluid head tripod. This just means your camera rig has to meet the tripod's sweet spot, or you'll get counter balance pull or drift.

Additionally, the mid level spreader that comes with the Libec is constructed a bit like an action figure accessory. All plastic and springs. Within two days of owning mine, the release button for adjusting the spreader had sprung completely, irreparably apart. I promptly returned it and bought a Satchler FSB. So far I love it.

Just thought I'd warn you!
 
@ stephen
thanks for your opinion on cartoni vs miller ... then I read two post later that your are
advising bogen 701hdv?
what?!? ... sorry, but now I must take your first advice with skepticism.
 
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