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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

to upgrade or not to upgrade?

A

Adrian Correia

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Okay guys...going to shoot a feature in Canada....director wants to shoot 16x9.

I am currently on Build 15. I am not totally comfortable with how unstable 15 is with 16x9...that being said, for those of you experienced shooting build 16...even though it is a beta..is it worth the upgrade to shoot a feature on?

Thanks guys!
 
4K 16:9 in build 15? Fuhgetaboutit. Upgrade to B16 3.2.1 (latest build) and you'll be fine. Be sure to follow the instructions and upgrade to B15 v2.2.8 FIRST (this build is included in the Build 16 download).

Keep in mind that Build 16 is still beta. But this latest build seems to be really stable. There are a few reports of playback errors and minor issues, but IMO, no worse than what people experience with Build 15.
 
Build 16 is fairly solid, I haven't encountered any problems, if you upgrade, you wont regret it. Look at what the other REDUSERS are doing, the early reservation holders are upgrading to build 16 for commercial productions and not encountering problems either. Trust in RED.
 
FWIW, B16 3.2.1 is more solid for me than B15 2.2.5 was. And no record / codec errors in 4K 16:9 like many of us saw in Build 15.

Dylan, I agree with your logic, but... In my opinion the "release" version of Build 15 was very much "beta".

Anyway, it is something to consider. Do some tests shooting 16:9 and see how it goes with Build 15. If it works, stick with it if it makes everyone feel more comfortable.

Oh, and have a back-up plan / camera body lined up or on-call if this is an important gig. I'd recommend that with Build 15 or 16. Definitely have a backup if this is a feature!
 
The only problem I've had is occasional boot failure. About 1 in every 5 times it stalls during booting and needs a 2nd try. Sometimes I've needed to pull the Lcd, drive/card, etc. to get the camera booted. I would explore a dual battery system so you don't have to power cycle it. Otherwise b16 has been great for 16:9.

BTW, we're neighbors. You're welcome to come by and check out 16 in person, Adrian.
 
I've done 2 commercial shoots on build 16 3.2.1 with no problem (the 1st one before that was a disaster though). It's stable as far as I can say and it can tackle the problems, with extreme contrast that it had as codec error. As for detail I can not say, but that seems to be solved as well. That codec error where also an extreme case.

So I'd say go for it. Unless you're prepared on shooting 16:9 with 15, sending the material instantely for conversion in RC or RA and convert it. If your shooting a commercial and don't spray away with the cam + that you "reload" every four minutes or so and off load that material instantely, you should almost be finished with your conversions by the end of the day.

So build 16 or that
 
clearlighter said:
The only problem I've had is occasional boot failure. About 1 in every 5 times it stalls during booting and needs a 2nd try. Sometimes I've needed to pull the Lcd, drive/card, etc. to get the camera booted. I would explore a dual battery system so you don't have to power cycle it. Otherwise b16 has been great for 16:9.
Click to expand...

Have you tried downloading a fresh copy of the firmware, formatting a CF card in camera for it, then doing a re-install? I have only had one stall during booting with Build 16 and that was with v3.1.2 after I changed the clock, the camera hung when re-starting. One in every 5 times is hardly occasional, I'd say there is an actual problem. Have you notified RED and sent in any log files?
 
It is a pretty big job for me....I have had quite an issue with build 15 and codec errors...build 16 may be the way to go....I will definitely look into getting a second body....thanks for the guidance guys!
 
Jeff Coatney said:
If something should happen to your build 15 camera, the most likely replacement would be a build 16 Red anyway, IMHO.
Click to expand...

I don't know any rental house here in TO that are renting cameras with build 16.

I dunno, maybe I'm being paranoid. Reality is, on a commercial job or a feature, if the camera were to go down completely and you lost an hour or two to get a replacement and if the execs wanted to, the could lay it all on you "because you used beta software".

I've been using build 15 for over three months now. Not a single codec error. Maybe two times it has hung while booting.

If the feature film has a bond company involved I'd be careful.

The last doc I did got a letter from their insurance company saying they were uncomfortable with our choice of camera. That their "camera expert" had heard that RED was "unstable" and didn't like our use of this "experimental technology". The director fought for it, as did I. In the end they had to sign off on a higher deductable if anything went wrong.

I am personally not worried, but when it comes to insurance companies and finger pointing...I cover my ass!

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
 
dmacleod said:
I don't know any rental house here in TO that are renting cameras with build 15.

I dunno, maybe I'm being paranoid. Reality is, on a commercial job or a feature, if the camera were to go down completely and you lost an hour or two to get a replacement and if the execs wanted to, the could lay it all on you "because you used beta software".

I've been using build 15 for over three months now. Not a single codec error. Maybe two times it has hung while booting.

If the feature film has a bond company involved I'd be careful.

The last doc I did got a letter from their insurance company saying they were uncomfortable with our choice of camera. That their "camera expert" had heard that RED was "unstable" and didn't like our use of this "experimental technology". The director fought for it, as did I. In the end they had to sign off on a higher deductable if anything went wrong.

I am personally not worried, but when it comes to insurance companies and finger pointing...I cover my ass!

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
Click to expand...


Thanks Dylan...duly noted....will talk to my producer first!
 
dmacleod said:
I dunno, maybe I'm being paranoid. Reality is, on a commercial job or a feature, if the camera were to go down completely and you lost an hour or two to get a replacement and if the execs wanted to, the could lay it all on you "because you used beta software".
Click to expand...

Don't walk yourself into that position. RED is beta at this point, even if you're still shooting with Build 15. There is an element of risk, no matter what. Have a backup plan and let the producers, clients, etc.. know up front that the camera, workflow, etc.. are all still in development and there could be issues.

I've been using build 15 for over three months now. Not a single codec error. Maybe two times it has hung while booting.
Click to expand...

Then you haven't been shooting 4K 16:9. Camera hanging at boot is something else, most of us don't have that problem.

[/quote]If the feature film has a bond company involved I'd be careful.

The last doc I did got a letter from their insurance company saying they were uncomfortable with our choice of camera. That their "camera expert" had heard that RED was "unstable" and didn't like our use of this "experimental technology". The director fought for it, as did I. In the end they had to sign off on a higher deductable if anything went wrong.[/quote]

Yep... Risk goes up, so does the cost to bond and insure.

I am personally not worried, but when it comes to insurance companies and finger pointing...I cover my ass!
Click to expand...

As should everyone.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Upgrade to B16 3.2.1 (latest build) and you'll be fine. Be sure to follow the instructions and upgrade to B15 v2.2.8 FIRST (this build is included in the Build 16 download).

.
Click to expand...

should i do black calibration 2 times
first when upgrade from B15 v2.2.5 to B15 v2.2.8
then again from B15 v2.2.8 - B16
 
BASSAM MSSALATIE said:
should i do black calibration 2 times
first when upgrade from B15 v2.2.5 to B15 v2.2.8
then again from B15 v2.2.8 - B16
Click to expand...

when you read the readme file, there stands you can go without black calibration, but format with 2.2.8 the cf card which you then use for the 3.2.5 upgrade.
 
Go to Build 16... if it is not a release version, it should be. No question here. You'll "have a new camera".

Jim
 
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