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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

To those waiting on the Scarlet...

To speak counter to the point, I think for some people (which means me) I cannot afford a Red One and I refuse to put more money into other cameras that I am just going to be disappointed with. I am relatively new to cinematography, so for me, I don't want to work within the limitations of cameras I have used that just annoy me to no end! :)

I certainly understand the 'you should have been working' for the last two years, but for some of us, we don't do this for an income, but as a love of filmmaking. Sure, I'd like to make money off of my first film, but that's not why I am doing it. I'm using my own money for the art I am creating for me.

Right now I have a 7D because of the dynamic range (11 stops) to learn on and shoot some things, and knowing the Scarlet is going to be even more sensitive, it means the shot philosophy's and techniques I am using will transfer well. We don't need five million watts of lighting, we don't have a ten foot long camera. We don't have to waste a lot of time with a 35mm adapter that loses even more light. I am preparing myself for the future and with a new paradigm of shooting philosophy as well.

Shooting on other technologies is valid for a lot of people, and there is nothing wrong with that, I even have an HVX200 at my disposal if I need it. I am NOT however investing in something that I'm just going to sell in a few months for a loss for sure. Nor wasting a lot of time working around limitations that don't exist in newer technologies. I know this just comparing lighting requirements with the 7D and HVX200 which are night and day different.

I am not upset with Red in the least, as I am an electrical engineer during the day and know all too well about schedules and high speed technologies. It's a hard field that is always full of surprises. They have been making amazing gains and taking us on the trip with them in all the ups and downs, all the while listening to our every need.

People are hoping for a miracle and want to jump on the RED bandwagon and start using the future yesterday. This is why they get frustrated. They are so excited about these technologies. But as time goes on, that excitement does turn to frustration when you can almost taste the beauty of what is to come.

The problem is that Red is in a position to give people with lower budgets a camera that far outshines ANYTHING I have seen in that price range. They are excited as hell to use that technology. But at the same time, Red has products that are intended for more major players as well. Both these mindsets are on the same user board. Both are excited and frustrated at times for different reasons. But that is reality. This is why I think some people don't understand the mentality of the posts.

While the EPIC is absolutely beautiful and shoots great, I was disappointed at no updated news about the Scarlet or even any further developments on that front. You were happy with the EPIC news and all the excitement around it. That's great, but we are different target audiences. For me, my future with RED is still 'UNKNOWN' says the great 8 ball in the sky.

This changes nothing though. As I said, RED is working as hard and as fast as they can to get these out there. Doesn't change the fact I'm still waiting for the future. Doesn't change the fact I really don't want to start shooting my film yet because I know it will look better on the Scarlet. Also, Red Ones in this area (NC) are like $1k a day to rent. Five days of that pays for the base model of the Fixed. For me economically it's just a hard position to be in.

All that said, there is supposed to be an east coast Red event sometime soon, and I WILL be going to check out the Epic anyway since it shares some of the same hardware as the Scarlet. If I do move up the cinematography chain, you can BET I will move up the Red brain chain as well :) (which is absolutely awesome).

:)
 
That was a great post Rick. I understand where you are.

I too have been waiting on the Scarlet. My business model does not fit the RED One, and I will not be getting the EPIC either. My plans are to get a couple of Fixed Scarlets with a number of modules, then when necessary, I will be moving up. The S35 is going to be the sweetest little thing for everyone, as it is still projected around the $7,000 mark.

I was happy to see the EPIC, not because I will be getting an EPIC but because I am getting a Scarlet.
 
Funny you should say that, because that is also my upgrade path. I've mapped out some work with the Scarlet and a couple local camera operators so that once my fixed comes in, we can make enough money off of it relatively quickly to be in line for the S35 brain and the Canon EF mount. I absolutely agree this is going to be an AWESOME combination for people.

You see, I shoot kung fu films as well with the group I work with, and the Fixed is perfect because of the easy deep focus and HIGH frame rates. I will not be selling the fixed brain. I will swap them in and out with whatever add ons I use so I can have the best of both worlds.

Funny enough, I just ordered my FIRST piece of RED hardware. The CF Red Station. Now I can tell people my film was captured on a red station :P
 
Rick Burnett said:
Elaborate! :) My understanding was that since the sensor is so much smaller, that the DoF is going to be a lot deeper just due to the physics.

For fight scenes this is really a must due to them moving all about in every which way :)
Click to expand...

Yes, it will be deeper, but you can still get beautiful shallow dof with 2/3" sensors.
 
Ahh, yes, yes. I just want the freedom of the added S35 as I am sure the dynamic range and noise will be slightly lower, and of course, you can get more DoF easier (which will be comparable to what I am used to on the APS-C sensor).

It's funny, I shot with a FF35 sensor about a week ago, too shallow for most of the stuff I do :) S35 is like perfect.
 
Rick Burnett said:
Ahh, yes, yes. I just want the freedom of the added S35 as I am sure the dynamic range and noise will be slightly lower, and of course, you can get more DoF easier (which will be comparable to what I am used to on the APS-C sensor).

It's funny, I shot with a FF35 sensor about a week ago, too shallow for most of the stuff I do :) S35 is like perfect.
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Ultra shallow DOF of FF35 is not practical for a lot of motion shooting conditions. the 16mm(2/3") and S35 formats have been the predominant standards in film and electronics for decades for many good reasons, practical DOF range for motion being just one.
 
I think 2/3" is a great frame size. The perfect size would be S16, which is a tad larger than 2/3". Let's hope the next generation Scarlet (or whatever it would be called) does a S16 sensor.

At that size, you could get a deep dof, but also work with a shallow dof, to practical extents. Of course, if you want a really dreamy FF35-style dof, I am sure there will be adapter options too.

But on a FF35, you would need a lot of light to keep a deep dof. Having said that, the Monstro's immense sensitivity will mean you could film at tiny apertures, maintaining a deeper dof. But still, the 2/3" will offer much more control. And frankly, my style requires much more of deep focus than shallow.

Instead of increasing sensor sizes, it would be great if we could advance everything, including resolution, at the same sensor size. This would also increase reusability of lenses, etc.
 
Another advantage to the 2/3" format is much more compact optics, especially wide range fast zooms. An S35 zoom that will match the range and speed of my 8" 2lb Angenieux 12 -120 T2.1 becomes a 2 foot long 24lb monster of a lens.
 
David Rasberry said:
Another advantage to the 2/3" format is much more compact optics, especially wide range fast zooms. An S35 zoom that will match the range and speed of my 8" 2lb Angenieux 12 -120 T2.1 becomes a 2 foot long 24lb monster of a lens.
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That's a good point. In general, there's a wide variety of high quality 16mm lenses that will be brought back to life by the Scarlets. Of course, these lenses are cheaper and lighter than their 35mm counterparts.
 
This will be great for the rental houses who are struggling to rent out their s16mm lenses. Everyone has stopped shooting 16mm and is using DSLRs and Red ones was the complaint I heard from a couple of London based rental companies. The smart ones are thinking their main rentals will be expensive glass, grip equipment and other speciality items. Cameras are just becoming so affordable everyone is buying rather than renting.
 
Gotta say Joseph your interviews with Ted, both from NAB and the one for SUpodcast a while back via Skype when he was in HongKong and about to leave for India especially, finally clicked it in place for me. I finally get RED and their approach to this whole thing.

I have spent a long time hanging around these forums, wanting announced cameras to appear, struggling to find the real information amongst all the posts and discussions. Feeling frustrated in the process, yearning for my dream camera, but learning a lot along the way from some of the conversations.

What happened in your interviews with Ted, and you seem to draw out a really open and encouraging fatherly quality from him which is really great to see and brings some of those professional face barriers down, is that you had a really open and frank two way discussion. And I saw these forums in a whole new light, one where RED has basically said; hey we want to build these great new cameras, we have the power to do it, we want them to be the best they can be and have some ideas but all you friendly people out there probably have good ideas too, lets talk about them and together make something great.

There is a tension between this approach and their need to maintain company face, deal with customer expectations and function as a competitive business but this openess is the essence of their approach.

My trouble was I had no idea that this was the setup, so to speak. I expected the normal business to customer relationship.

I expected firm announcements, not a collaborative sharing of ideas to help forge new products.

I expected there to be an official company line, not a sharing of where they are at now in their thinking process with an open space to discuss and influence it.

It was only through seeing and hearing TED have that kind of discussion with you guys that I could get a feeling for where RED are actually coming from in their approach. Having that human interaction, rather than words on a forum gave a level of feeling that allowed me to sense where they are really coming from and stripped away all the perceptions of RED as a conventional business entity.

I recommend anyone go listen to those SUpodcasts and watch the video from Reduser/NAB. Hopefully they will be able to see RED in a whole new light and be able to step beyond the sorts of assumptions that I made when I first came to REDuser and saw the specs for the dream camera I wanted released.
 
Thanks Quentin. Hearing things such as what you said is the reason why I put a steadicam on from 9-5 and stay up til 4:30 getting the videos up online for the community out there to see what's going on.

I look forward to doing much more for those out there, such as yourself. :thumbsup:
 
Joseph Hutson said:
Thanks Quentin. Hearing things such as what you said is the reason why I put a steadicam on from 9-5 and stay up til 4:30 getting the videos up online for the community out there to see what's going on.

I look forward to doing much more for those out there, such as yourself. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I'm sure it gets you noticed by the people at RED too, not to mention endearing yourselves to the many other REDusers. :wink:

In this business that can go a long way.:sifone:

I bet you had fun too..

Film making is hard work and long hours but we do it because we love it right?


thanks again for the NAB REDday coverage.
 
Joseph Hutson said:
I am personally getting tired of the "Hurry up and make the Scarlet". With yesterday's news and with the Epic/Scarlet program finally running smoothly, we really ought to be congratulating Jim and Co. for EPIC's birth...not begging for Scarlet. You ought to have been making money with another camera for the last two years instead of waiting/begging.
:
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If you are tired with reading "Hurry up and make the Scarlet" threads, stop reading them. Any time there is a really nice thing and you tell people they have to wait, frustration is natural for some people.

You've got a great way of looking at things and obviously a patient person, but not every one works that way. Some people need to express their frustration or disappointment just like you needed to say something about all of the complaining. One could make the argument "who are you to tell people what we can say, when we are expressing our opinions" just like you say "who are you to complain about Red who is just producing a product?"

Personally I think both you have the right to complain about the complainers and the complainers have a right to complain. But the solution to your problem is easier, just stop reading the threads that are complaints.

Final thought. The opposite of love is not hate but indifference. Just as I am sure the red crew doesn't read alot of the repetitive complaining, I am sure they also know that if they weren't doing such a good job people wouldn't complain over delays. No one complains about the delay to see Gigli.

Love the lively debate to pass the time til the scarlet comes out ; )
 
AStamper said:
If you are tired with reading "Hurry up and make the Scarlet" threads, stop reading them. Any time there is a really nice thing and you tell people they have to wait, frustration is natural for some people.

You've got a great way of looking at things and obviously a patient person, but not every one works that way. Some people need to express their frustration or disappointment just like you needed to say something about all of the complaining. One could make the argument "who are you to tell people what we can say, when we are expressing our opinions" just like you say "who are you to complain about Red who is just producing a product?"

Personally I think both you have the right to complain about the complainers and the complainers have a right to complain. But the solution to your problem is easier, just stop reading the threads that are complaints.

Final thought. The opposite of love is not hate but indifference. Just as I am sure the red crew doesn't read alot of the repetitive complaining, I am sure they also know that if they weren't doing such a good job people wouldn't complain over delays. No one complains about the delay to see Gigli.

Love the lively debate to pass the time til the scarlet comes out ; )
Click to expand...

you have a very good point there in the "final thought" section. i also agree with the rest of your post, although i think i'm more on the side of trying to calm down the "complainers." I think Joseph's complaint most likely could have come from one certain complainer and then it was more of a "calm down complainers!" kind of message, then again, i don't really know because i'm not joseph. that's just what it looked like to me.

Agreed, when Scarlet comes out, it's going to be EPIC! <---- that's right, i said it. :thumbsup:
 
The interesting thing though is complaining does not good. Some might think they're getting there way by doing so, but it does nothing.

We can definitely congratulate the RED TEAM, spread the word, offer any ideas or suggestions etc...

Being new to this forum I've seen a lot camaraderie, a lot of experienced individuals helping the newbies or just guys offering advice, and most of them may not know each other but there is a bond and we should use that to help with Scarlet's delivery.
 
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