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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

To Dragon or not

Tom Chase

Tom Chase

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So I am putting this out here - I got my Epic around this time last year specifically for an personal multi-year project which has stalled. One of the reasons I choose to go with the Epic was 5K; the project is about archiving and capturing "Oral/Visiual" Histories of the Living Purple Heart Recipents from Iraq and Afghanistan, of which I am one of. I wanted to capture in the highest image resolution possible for these stories. I am also a narrative filmmaker; and I have found my self using the Epic in that endeavor as well, but just haven't had the opportunity to shoot nearly as much as I thought I would of by now.

So my question is should I from a cost point of view upgrade to the Dragon before the price increase? I don't know how much 6K will buy me interns of archival quality (my initial premise was at the rate TV/Projectors/Monitor resolutions are advancing I didn't want to capture these stories in 1080 only to find out 5 years later they look horrible because they're being viewed on a 6K monitor). From my personal filmmaking projects the Epic does everything and more that I need it do and to be frank had I not seen the price increase coming 1 December, I wouldn't of thought to upgrade to the Dragon for at least another year if not two.

I'd love feed back.

Thanks

Tom Chase
 
Totally subjective situation. You probably bought more of a camera than you needed for your original purpose so upgrading would be more of the same. That could be defended, the same as your original reasoning. Or, you could be spending money that you don't need to. Who wouldn't want a Dragon? But, IMO, you don't need it. You will create a compelling story with what you have. Totally your call. If you can wait another year, the proce increase will be a non-issue as many things are likely to change.
 
See thats my thinking - is wait a year and see whats going on for the upgrade. But I think I'm stuck on the fact I'd be saving 30% by upgrading now - $12500 is still $12500. But then there is the other side of me agree with your point completely - WHO WOULDN"t WANT A DRAGON lol. choices, choices. choices.
 
Wasn't it said that there might be a deadline for updating Epic MX bodies to Dragon?
Which is certainly a factor in the equation. Just to wait and then have a [new] deadline soon -- with $3K more to pay for that short time.
 
Last edited:
Dr. Sassi said:
Wasn't it said that there might be a deadline for updating Epic MX bodies to Dragon?
Which is certainly a factor in the equation. Just to wait and then have a [new] deadline soon -- with $3K more to pay for that short time.
Click to expand...

The quote that continually floats around is "All good things come to an end."
 
Dr. Sassi said:
Wasn't it said that there might be a deadline for updating Epic MX bodies to Dragon?
Which is certainly a factor in the equation. Just to wait and then have a [new] deadline soon -- with $3K more to pay for that short time.
Click to expand...

Personally, I have a feeling the MX to Dragon path will be open for a while. It's such a valuable and appealing path, especially if RED continues to sell MX cameras (I guess we'll know more about that on Dec 1st).
 
elisey gladnikov said:
They need to fix THE BIG ISSUE with red lines in highlights, so better to wait new gen of sensor
Click to expand...

Highlights on Dragon? I don't think that's an issue with RED at all anymore. Both OLPFs handle highlights much better than MX.
 
elisey gladnikov said:
They need to fix THE BIG ISSUE with red lines in highlights, so better to wait new gen of sensor
Click to expand...

this is at best a very strange explanation of CMOS horisontal smear. if it is, that's not a highlight issue... and not a general problem. if you think of something else.... images please.....
 
i think we are talking about the same issue, I don't know exactly how it's called, but the problem remains. if this is the problem of my sensor, then I want it corrected, if not, then it is a problem of all sensors of the Dragon
 
elisey gladnikov said:
They need to fix THE BIG ISSUE with red lines in highlights, so better to wait new gen of sensor
Click to expand...

This has never been an issue for me and I haven't heard of others having this problem. It can't be that big of an issue.
 
elisey gladnikov said:
i think we are talking about the same issue, I don't know exactly how it's called, but the problem remains. if this is the problem of my sensor, then I want it corrected, if not, then it is a problem of all sensors of the Dragon
Click to expand...

You're talking about a CMOS sensor characterristc and it can be triggered on any camera with a CMOS sensor under the "right" circumstances.

combine it with underexposure and and a sensor not up to black-calibration temp, the Dragon can bite.
If you let the sensor come to speed and don't underexpose at the same time: It's like any CMOS.

It's not at all like it's always happening in al high contrast/underexposure situations...

10547905_10152807300775126_1934354869600710685_o.jpg


Do you have a Dragon?
 
That line will always be there, it's the sensor. It's just more pronounced in Dragon than most CMOS cameras. You can get rid of it almost entirely by crushing the blacks almost entirely out, if you're looking to do LOG style with a light grade when shooting in those instances then you might want to test a bunch of cameras first. It's not only Dragon, it's a lot of cameras, but some have compensation, like Canon's push the green up in those areas. It's also not going to happen all the time, but I do run into it a lot. There's a lot of great things the Dragon does and some things / quirks that you really need to be aware of. If you shoot a lot of backlit window scenes and do light grades it might not be the right choice. Outside of that, it's a pretty outstanding sensor that's capable of really great imagery, especially with the tweaked LLOLPF.
 
Your cool with keeping an MX.

Dragon is nice more latitude and better with lowlight.

Some of my favorite movies have been shot on MX. If you had a Scarlet I'd talk you into Dragon but Epic is where it's at.

I know some DP had to make the upgrade once they lost 3 jobs to Dragon then they dropped the doe.

Otherwise 5K is great you can shoot 800 no problem just be sure to over expose so you can bring down in post and your good.

MX still puts out a great image and its pretty stable than it has been in the past.
 
So this is a still from my last shoot, RedColor3/Redgamma3. It was shot with one 60w Edison bulb above the actor and one 12x12 F&V LED Panel; shot at 1000iso with a Canon 24-70 L @ 2.8. How much more latitude would a shot like this have using a Dragon and the Low Light OLFP (This is ungraded - I just wanted to show the type of Low Light shooting I've found myself doing)
 
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