Tired...

[Miguel Queiroz]

I understand Barts concerns, but I believe that in the end, it'll be worth the wait. RED has been dropping the price of several Scarlet brains since the first announcements, which is great and considering $3,750 is the price for a complete kit... I think it's a wonderful price for the value. Maybe the initial 3K Scarlet didn't have all these accessories, I don't remember... But it certainly was not such a powerful technology. This completely modular DSMC configuration also makes the camera a much better value for the buck, in several aspects.

Let's try and be patient... I wouldn't be surprised if in the end the dates are going to be anticipated for the release of Scarlet and Epic.


As Jason pertinetly pointed out, this aparent delay and changes are only a consequence of RED's transparency policy!.. Let's trust RED... And about the 3D models: I find them a great way of keeping us paced with developments and it allows us to dream and to plan the configuration of our future ideal camera.

I look forward to the first estimates for accessories prices... I can't wait to start aproximating the final budget. I intend to go for a pair of Scarlet FF35, but like Bart, I'm also anxious to know the final price for accessories, to meditate on configurations for my budget.

All the way, RED!!

 

[Alex Coelho]

You will lose the trust of the low-end clients.

They are not taking there low-end customers very serious anymore and therefore lose credibility.

Please find me another 2/3 3k camera for $3,700. The big 3 are still making 1/3 size sensor cams for even more then the proposed price of the fix lens Scarlet.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I have always seen Red and the Scarlet development as a way to get into the prosumer market. Not the consumer market. Therefore, when you look at what Scarlet is offering you have to start with the competition's products that are in the same league. EX1, HPX500, etc. Compare the prices. For filmmakers to have the opportunity to enter this market for under $5000 is incredible. If buying is not an option, renting certainly will be and the Scarlet's will be very affordable to rent. This is filmmaking Utopia. It does't get any better...actually it probably will some day and Red will have a lot to do with it I'm sure.

Bart, I understand that every dollar counts and I don't discount that at all. In fact, in this current economy, every penny counts. So $750 is significant. But, we have the option to not buy these products if they don't fit our price range. Red has had the same tag line for a long time. Not everyone likes change, and I understand that too. But Red is under no obligation to make us happy. They are doing their best to put out fantastic cameras at low prices. I think they are succeeding. These cameras are going to be priced way lower than any other manufacturer could price them for equal performance. Not even close.

 

[proaudio4]

Please find me another 2/3 3k camera for $3,700. The big 3 are still making 1/3 size sensor cams for even more then the proposed price of the fix lens Scarlet.

Amen!

Let's face it, everyone has their own opinions, but this is the "Ace of Spades" deal!

I currently own a $6500 (USD) EX1 which is quite amazing and only offers 1/2" CMOS sensors and only records internally to 35mbps XDCAM codec, unless going SDI out.

Even if the 2/3" Scarlet matched the EX1 SDI out image performance (although we believe will beat the EX1), the 2/3" fixed lens Scarlet only costs $3700! This is UNREAL. If it's too much, there are many other cameras that can be bought for less. You're just not going to get 2/3" lens and RED codec perfomance from any other camera less than $15K or more!
lol

 

[TallGuy]

700 bucks is a premium that will buy you future proofing of your Scarlet camera. An option that was not available to you with the old Scarlet.

Whoa! This is great news to my ears. It appears from the renders I've seen that the $3,750 fixed-lens Scarlet was not upgradeable in the same way as the others. It has a completely different body than the rest and it doesn't even seem to have the plate where you can change the lens mounts if you wanted to.

It appeared to me that if you bought the Fixed-lens Scarlet and wanted to move to any other version, you were basically starting from scratch. I don't follow these forums every day, so maybe I missed those details on the specifics on how the fixed-lens version was 'future proofed', but that's the best news I've heard. Thanks!

 

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

I totally understand the frustration. But I feel its a lack of perspective toward what RED has been and has stated since the beginning. Lots of people thought of red to be a scam. We all were frustrated with the delivery status. Selling the R1 only with a prototype that didnt fully work nor had all features enabled and a 3D render! Thats how I bought it, only without even seeing the prototype, I bought it over the web when the first cameras were going to be shipped. A year ago. So with the announcements that have been made there is only one thing to remember: Everything is subject to change. Count on it and you wont be disappointed NOR frustrated... I had to learn it the hard way, bought a camera and received it 9 months later! I wont even talk about the wait for the drive afterwords. It was frustrating but worth the wait...
For all of you who feel that red has stopped being what it used to be by changing the specs, prices and delivery dates, you should realize that that's the way it has always been and probably how it'll always be, as long as they have such a visionary on top of the company seeing the future before us.

 

[sander kamp]

RED is a funny company, they don't do things the way Sony and Panasonic do. They announce products, set a time-frame, get delayed, change their minds, change the product or cancel it and so on. I waited 1,5 years from my reservation to receiving the camera and it drove me nuts. But in the end I have a real camera and everything has working out for me the way I hoped it to be.

If you need to shoot now buy a RED One or if that's beyond your budget buy a camera from another company. Or else wait patiently until there is a real product shipping. Trying to push RED into releasing a camera this Spring with better specs for less money is not going to get you anywhere and will just get you frustrated.

 

[mical]

Although I don’t completely agree with him myself, in one way I do understand Bart’s frustration.

At the beginning of this year many of us didn’t give the company RED a second look; I certainly didn’t as $17000+ was very far from my budget for cameras.

Then NAB 2008 came and the first mention of Scarlet was revealed!! “OMG 3k for 3k, out-of-the-box ready to shoot!!” was my response! No more V1s, A1, HVX…, or any other arbitrary model number/name for me – now it was “SCARLET”. I became a regular reader of both, reduser, and scarletuser. I learned about Red One, redcode workflows, the company’s philosophy, and generally how the company worked and I liked it!! (I didn’t even make the connection between my old motocross fixation and the name Jim Jannard for months, that was a pretty cool …and quite a weird revelation)

In the fall RED said “Nov 13th announcement…everything has changed” and that was cool for me. But I distinctly said to myself if they raise the price of that NAB 2008 announced Scarlet there will be some unhappy people!

Finally Dec 3rd comes, and we have a price for the fixed lens Scarlet. Personally for me its a steal, and I can actually afford to go with a higher end brain kit(hehehaha, oh so happy). But there must be some people, especially now, with the economy the way it is now, who are saying to themselves that 700 extra is 700 too much.

Even though all of Jim Jannard post’s say, “expect changes…you won’t be disappointed” please, lets all be a little patient with those who vent, because 700 dollars has a different meaning to different people. For example I live in China: Some independent film makers I know saw the just announced Scarlet price and $700 is 6 - 8 months of work to them!

I will add this:
The camera does not make a filmmaker. It’s just a tool! Learn how to use your tool to best of its – and your – abilities. Learn skills that you can apply to your future and you will future proof yourself!

Don’t worry, the better, more expensive tools will always be there when you are ready$ for them.

 

[David Stewart]

The guy has a point. Right now nobody makes a 2/3 3k camera for $3700. Come Summer of 2009, who knows - maybe Red, maybe Canon or Nikon or Sony. All I can say is Red needs to get it in gear as the others already have the infrastructure in place. I applaud Red for trying to make a camera that everyone wants for a reasonable price. Maybe the other manufacturures will quit making 17 different models that have one or two cool features each.

Please find me another 2/3 3k camera for $3,700. The big 3 are still making 1/3 size sensor cams for even more then the proposed price of the fix lens Scarlet.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

Whoa! This is great news to my ears. It appears from the renders I've seen that the $3,750 fixed-lens Scarlet was not upgradeable in the same way as the others. It has a completely different body than the rest and it doesn't even seem to have the plate where you can change the lens mounts if you wanted to.

It appeared to me that if you bought the Fixed-lens Scarlet and wanted to move to any other version, you were basically starting from scratch. I don't follow these forums every day, so maybe I missed those details on the specifics on how the fixed-lens version was 'future proofed', but that's the best news I've heard. Thanks!

Don't take me to mean it quite that far... Indications seem to be that the fixed lens Scarlet will have a lot of things built in, or perhaps one module that has the main components. But, there will likely be other modules/accessories that folks will purchase along with it (and a lot of folks wont' be doing just the complete kit package alone) that will move along with you as you move up the food chain.

So, to clarify (this is all still speculation) the fixed lens system won't be as modular as the DSMC systems beginning with the S35 Scarlet which is labeled as the flagship DSMC entry. But, still far more modular than the original Scarlet seemed like it was going to be (or at least, that is what I am "speculating" from the information I have seen). So, I don't think you will be starting from scratch, but it won't be like going from an S35 Scarlet to an S35 Epic for example. When making that statement, I was more making it in comparison to the originally announced scarlet. It certainly won't be like the traditional model that people seem to have so quickly forgotten. Want to stay current? buy a completely new camera every year or two. Even with the Scarlet fixed lens system (I think) you are still riding the coattails of that DSMC system to some extent, and have a way into it. But, we've got to wait for more details. Folks often times have a habit of jumping to conclusions, only to create a frenzy for no reason when they are later proven to have been incorrect when more details come. some folks though b/c the lens mounts weren't listed on the new specs that suddenly there wouldn't be nikon mounts, etc.

I would also think that the current fixed lens offering will have some features that the original did not (also part of that premium).

Point is... nothing is going to please everyone. It's just another product that will be available someday that consumers will have to choose from when making a purchasing decision. It is what it is. After a point, this type of discussion just becomes circular and somewhat pointless. by Red standards, it's 98% perfect. Any other company offering this, it would be the holy grail and most of this discussion would not be happening at all.

Later,
Jason

 

[Jiri Bakala]

I don't understand what the discussion is even about. $3,700 is dirt cheap for what it is. If you need a camera now (as I do), either rent or buy EX1 or EX3, knowing that you will sell it for half its price next fall when Scarlet becomes available. If you are a professional, it will have made you the difference back a few times, so it doesn't matter. If you are not a professional user, buy a cheap DV cam for now and wait in peace for Scarlet's arrival. End of story.

 

[Daniel Reichenbach]

There's only one thing, that should make as tired: to read all this wining threads about price politics. The RED program is the best deal I've ever got from a camera factory, some dollars more? RED deserves them all...

 

[Bart van der Horst]

There's only one thing, that should make as tired: to read all this wining threads about price politics. The RED program is the best deal I've ever got from a camera factory, some dollars more? RED deserves them all...

Red is merely a reflection of what technology in good hands is capable of. They are not wizzards creating something out of the blue. They are the first to use modern technology to create what they want. there strongest point is not technology but thinking different. And that is fantastic. But as fast as they expect me to adapt to their fast changes.
I adapt to the even more fast changes in the market. Other companies are not crazy and will fill in the gaps Red is leaving. Or even make better products simply because it is not a matter of technology that has to be invented from scratch for them. Because it is just a matter of thinking different. And red already gave proof that there is a market. so for the big three it will be easy.
Red has to hurry.

Most filmmakers are not that interested in superhighresolution, they are more interested in shallow depth of field, low light, and good color.

It is not the superspecs that will convince,it is the feel of the camera.
Remember the dvx100 B. I know films that were projected on big screens, winning awards.

(yeah i know, was for long time same price as the scarlet now)

And most of you keep scarlet comparing with existing other camera's as an argument that it can raise prices.

If the scarlet would cost 5000 usd you would probably have still the same arguments.

You have to compare scarlet with scarlet and the possibilities that technology today can bring.

They started this revolution. And now they are not finishing it. I know that they are trying to win the pro world of filmmaking. And if they produce they will succeed. Unless they change everything again.

Until now the only psychology Red is using are specs.

And this is not enough. Especially for the soccer moms.

 

[Emiel Labree]

I know that Red wants to be on top of things. But I know that the longer they wait, the sooner Canon and Nikon or some obsolete manufacturer will come with something even Red will not be able to handle.

And you, as a customer, will reap the benefits if that happens. I don't see the problem.

Gegroet, trouwens.

 

[ETCFILMS]

I have never seen so many crying babies in one place before ... such an eye opener. (I just have to get his out)

OK consider this - The UK pound drop by more than 25% in one month!!!! And everything comes to UK cost more - A HELL LOT MORE.

So should I go to Canon and tell them. Hey sell me your latest XH-(whatever) for $3000 because we can not afford it anymore...

I bet you can't even find a place to write such thing to.

The only thing this guy can hold against RED is - someone said something earlier this year. But hey READ the small print - Subject to change! RED style.