Tips in Using RED with Davinci

[Rodrigo Violante]

Most of users here are expert users, but in my case I'm a new user and learn this the after more than 20 videos, usually in Davinci when you want smooth playback for edition you use 1/16 depending your computer to edit fast.

When you want to export change that setting, if not the rendering will be done at 1/16 of the quality, same goes for screenshots and everything related.

Maybe ohter users can share their tips they found out the hard way like me

Cheers

Rodrigo

 

[rand thompson]

Rodrigo,

You could also use the 1/8th setting.

[/url]Capture 1 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

Then, in the top menu to the right under "Playback" choose "Proxy Mode" and "Half Resolution" .

[/url]Screenshot (15) by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

For Export, keep your 1/16th playback but at export under the "Advanced Settings" choose "Force sizing to highest quality" and "force debayer to highest quality"

[/url]Capture 3 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]Capture 2 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[rand thompson]

Rodrigo,

In the example below I use a sample Red .r3d file from Phil Holland which is a 6144x3160 file and .Png files instead of the exported .tiff files due to file size.

Here is a .PNG image converted from a TIFF exported from a project with a "Camera Raw" "Red" "Decode Quality" "One-Sixteenth Res. Good" setting and with an "Export" "advanced settings" with "Force sizing to highest quality" and "force debayer to highest quality" both unchecked for export.

[/url]unforced_1.1.1 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

Here is a .PNG image converted from a TIFF exported from a project with a "Camera Raw" "Red" "Decode Quality" "One-Sixteenth Res. Good" setting and with an "Export" "advanced settings" with "Force sizing to highest quality" and "force debayer to highest quality" both checked for export.

[/url]forced_1.1.1 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[Marc Wielage]

I think it is very wise to set the timeline setting to the highest resolution of the clip(s) involved prior to rendering, manually set the debayering settings to the highest quality (and turn off Performance Mode in Resolve 14), in addition to "Force Sizing to Highest Quality" and "Force Debayer to Highest Quality" both checked for export. If you're working with (say) 4K material and monitoring in HD within an HD timeline, it is possible to render out 4K downrezzed to HD uprezzed to 4K, which will result in a loss of quality.

 

[Rodrigo Violante]

This is great feedback!

Can't wait to see how my footage turns out!

 

[Rodrigo Violante]

I did test with both aproaches and I feel you get the same results. (Except of course by my 1/16 mistake) In the images below from left to right is:

1.- FUll Res, Forzing highest quality and debrayer.
2.- 1/16 Res, Forzing highest quality and debrayer.
3.- 1/16 everything default.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/83cxkb6fs1fsrq6/Screenshot 2017-09-16 10.55.51.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/izru6k3sw3li916/Screenshot 2017-09-16 10.58.06.png?dl=0

 

[rand thompson]

Looks great either way. Glad you tested it and got the results you were looking for.

 

[rand thompson]

Rodrigo,

I saw you wanted the settings for the grade of the painting on my flickr account.

Here is the thread to that with the grade and the photo I used with it on page 1

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...quot-near-photo-realism-using-Davinci-Resolve

 

[Marc Wielage]

Zoom it in 400% and you will see a difference. Trust me on this.

 

[Dominic Boudreault]

You mean a difference between manually setting the timeline and debayer back to full quality before rendering and just checking "Force Sizing to Highest Quality" and "Force Debayer to Highest Quality" at render?

 

[Dominic Boudreault]

So I tested this out myself and turns out you are right Marc. Zoomed out at 300% you can clearly see a difference in sharpness between just checking "Force Sizing to Highest Quality" and "Force Debayer to Highest Quality" at render and setting the timeline and debayer back to full quality beforehand.

However, I did not see any changes when turning off Performance Mode in Resolve 14.

Anyhow, thanks for the tip! :beer:

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

If you're working with (say) 4K material and monitoring in HD within an HD timeline, it is possible to render out 4K downrezzed to HD uprezzed to 4K, which will result in a loss of quality.

Unfortunately, I'll take your word for it… but that would be a 'bug' of catastrophic proportions. Blackmagic often talk about their resolution independence and how it shouldn't be a problem editing 4k+ source material on a 2k timeline and just have the "force resize… and debayer" settings checked at export and DaVinci should automatically provide the highest quality the source clips can provide.

(I understand you are saying to change the timeline setting just before export, and it's sort of a non-issue, but it's exactly the kind of voodoo we shouldn't need to think about.)

If this bug still is there in the current R14 release, BMD should drop everything else and just fix it.

 

[rand thompson]

I was helping Rodrigo with putting 8k WS(Wide Screen) 2.37:1 aspect footage into a 4k DCI Scope 2.39:1 project so I thought I would post a more detailed explanation in the "Tips in Using Red with Davinci" thread for anyone else who doesn't already know this.

I will use a sample file from http://us.red.com/sample-r3d-files, Which is an Epic Dragon 6k WS (6144x2592) 2.37:1 aspect file to demonstrate.

You can bring RED WS 2.37:1 footage into Davinci Resolve a couple a different ways

1) You can import it into a DCI 4k(4096x2160) project and have it "letterboxed"

[/url]dci 4096x2160 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

2) You can import it into a "custom" (4096x1728) project and have the "letterboxing" removed.

[/url]custom 4096x1728 2 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

However,

If you want to import Red WS(Wide Screen) 2.37:1 aspect footage into a 2.39:1 or 2.40:1 aspect project, you will have to change a setting in Davinci Resolve

1) If you try to import Red WS(Wide Screen) 2.37:1 aspect footage into a 2.39:1 aspect project with resolve's default settings "Scale Entire Image To Fit",you get slight black bars on the left and right of your 2.37:1 aspect footage.

[/url]DCI 4k Scope 2.39 with arrows by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

You could manually scale the image up but you risk ruining the composition and framing if you scale it up too much. So what do you do?

1) First go to "File" Then "Project Settings"

[/url]Screenshot (19) by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

2) Second, go to "Image Scaling"

[/url]Capture by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]


3) In the "Input Scaling" Area Change the Default "Scale Entire image to fit"

[/url]Capture 3 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

to "Scale Full Frame with Crop'

[/url]Capture 5 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

You can change this setting at the "Input scaling" stage so that it is changed when the footage is first brought in or the "Output scaling" stage when it is transcoded but you only need to choose one not both.

[/url]Capture 2 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]


After making this change your 2.37:1 footage goes from this in a 4k DCI Scope 2.39:1 project with black bars at the left and right.

[/url]DCI 4k Scope 2.39 with arrows by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

To this

2.37 to fill 2.39 horizontal frame with arrows by rand thompson, on Flickr

And your 2.37:1 footage goes from this in a 2.40:1(4096x1706) project with black bars at the left and right.

[/url]2.37 scaled to a 2.40 aspect ratio before 2 by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]

To this

[/url]2.37 scaled to a 2.40 aspect ratio and after by rand thompson, on Flickr[/IMG]


I hope this helps someone.

 

[rand thompson]

Here is a video of the video clip above changed from a 2.37:1 clip to a 2.40:1 clip

here is the download.

[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hgedrz73o4oxlj/Untitled.mov?dl=0[/video]

 

[Marc Wielage]

Unfortunately, I'll take your word for it… but that would be a 'bug' of catastrophic proportions. Blackmagic often talk about their resolution independence and how it shouldn't be a problem editing 4k+ source material on a 2k timeline and just have the "force resize… and debayer" settings checked at export and DaVinci should automatically provide the highest quality the source clips can provide.

Naw, you just have to be very careful, read the manual, and know what you're doing. If you set the timeline to 4K, then do your renders at 4K, it'll be fine. I don't think you necessarily need to have a 6K or 8K timeline for material in that resolution -- to me, it's fine at 4K, but a lot boils down to speed, available hardware, and budget.

It never hurts to do tests and try several different workflows and see what looks best.

 

[Marc Wielage]

2) Second, go to "Image Scaling" ... 3) In the "Input Scaling" Area Change the Default "Scale Entire image to fit"...

I think this is the wisest advice. It's not a gigantic scaling problem, particularly if you're working with 4K (or higher) footage in a 4K timeline.

It does beg the question that you have to shoot in a specific aspect ratio in order to deliver a specific aspect ratio. Way too many times, I've dealt with filmmakers who have shot in Red native 1.90 and don't understand why they most likely can't deliver in this aspect ratio. You're much better off shooting a big frame -- like a 5K 5120x2700 frame -- and from that extract a 4K 4096x1716 scope frame. The advantage of doing this is now you have area outside the entire frame in order to recompose the image. In this case, no blow-up or scaling is necessary -- it's just cropping out what you don't need.

I have posted this before: this is the aspect ratio for David Fincher's Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, where they shot 5K and extracted 4K:

I think this is a very smart and clever idea, and I wish more people would do this. BTW, this also means you need to shoot an aspect ratio chart every day if possible so that the editorial crew can confirm that what they see on their monitors precisely matches what was seen on set.

 

[Curtis boggs]

I think this is the wisest advice. It's not a gigantic scaling problem, particularly if you're working with 4K (or higher) footage in a 4K timeline.

It does beg the question that you have to shoot in a specific aspect ratio in order to deliver a specific aspect ratio. Way too many times, I've dealt with filmmakers who have shot in Red native 1.90 and don't understand why they most likely can't deliver in this aspect ratio. You're much better off shooting a big frame -- like a 5K 5120x2700 frame -- and from that extract a 4K 4096x1716 scope frame. The advantage of doing this is now you have area outside the entire frame in order to recompose the image. In this case, no blow-up or scaling is necessary -- it's just cropping out what you don't need.

I have posted this before: this is the aspect ratio for David Fincher's Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, where they shot 5K and extracted 4K:

I think this is a very smart and clever idea, and I wish more people would do this. BTW, this also means you need to shoot an aspect ratio chart every day if possible so that the editorial crew can confirm that what they see on their monitors precisely matches what was seen on set.

I've been shooting a bunch at 6k on Helium for a 4k timeline. Seems to work great for me and those Ive worked for.

Marc do you have a source for the aspect ratio chart?? I have not been able to find one among the places I normally get test charts.

And Marc, cheers for sharing so much. You've contributed greatly to my chosen path!

Curtis

 

[Marc Wielage]

Marc do you have a source for the aspect ratio chart?? I have not been able to find one among the places I normally get test charts.

Yes, DSC Labs is tops in this regard:

http://dsclabs.com/

If it's an odd size (like 5K or 6K or something), then you might want to make a custom-drawn chart that corresponds exactly to your intended aspect ratio and the size of the reticle generator in the viewfinder. Phil Holland has posted a couple of good ones:

If you rent lenses from any major rental house, they most likely can either make or rent or loan you an aspect ratio chart for your specific production.