timecode and avid vs redcine

[Brian Merlen]

If we ama link some r3d files in Avid and later convert to DNxHD115 can we maintain time code? Production shot dual system sound and is trying to figure out if they are better off doing the encoding ahead of time in redcine or ama linking for the cut then the converting later. basically the whole purpose is they need to maintain time code to be able to sync the dual system sound. Any advice on which workflow is better and why is appreciated, I will also try to call Red and check with them but since its also a half Avid question I figured I'd check here as well. In advance thanks!!!

 

[MichaelP]

AMA linking will retain both timecodes (TOD and absolute) and other RMD metadata in the bin for either native R3D editing or via a transcode. The bigger question is performance expectations for editing as DNxHD will be far more responsive than R3D and the drive/connection requirements are less costly for throughput. Other considerations, is the number of layers expected, VFX, multicam, etc. Unless the project is short, and not a whole lot of dailies, most will transcode. And in those scenarios, it is best to just transcode up front.

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

What about if I do the encodes to DNxHD115 inside Redcine, does it keep time code when its no longer r3d files? Basically its a run and gun doc shot with dual system sound and they need the time code to link the audio. They want to cut in DNxHD115. The only part they aren't sure about is whether to do the encodes via Redcine for the speed boost, or inside Avid via import. They just want to establish a workflow Monday so they were going to have me come in. I know its mac pro xeon old school towers so not sure what GPU its running or if dealing with Redcine will be worth the speed boost on the dated machines. Thanks for your advice, always appreciated!

 

[joe hedge]

Why not just test it?

 

[Marc Wielage]

What about if I do the encodes to DNxHD115 inside Redcine, does it keep time code when its no longer r3d files?

Yes, if everything is set up correctly, timecode and audio should transfer across. As Joe above suggests, do a workflow test first to make sure everything performs as expected. A timecode slate is very helpful for stuff like this, since you can jog frame-by-frame through the material and verify that the slate timecode and the source file timecode are identical.

 

[Brian Merlen]

I can confirm encodes take twice as long via redcine as in Avid, on both a dual core machine and 8 core xeon... not sure why being that redcine is supposed to be newly optimized

 

[MichaelP]

I think I know what may be going on here. I just did a test with a 15 second 6K file from Dragon. Media Composer does an automatic "nearest fit" when accessing via AMA. Someone from Avid would need to confirm whether that also applies to the debayer setting found in Media Creation, but assuming it is halving the debayer to start with, then a 1/4 debayer in MC is equal to a 1/8 debayer in RXCPro and when doing so the transcode times are the same (with redline unchecked in settings). With debayer set to the same, MC is 2x faster which makes me think it is still doing the 1/2 debayer in the background. I will try to look into quality differences for editorial, but I have a feeling that is what is going on.

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

So I got an 8 core xeon with rocket to do the encodes and am having upstream nem errors inside avid when trasncoding there. I have one source drive, one target drive both externals on usb3/esata, but they are single drives the production gave me, which might be the issue.

without time to troubleshoot it much, i gave up and encoded via redcine all night. i now have 219 DNxHD files to fast import into a new avid project, and bin-> auto sync with the 5 channels of audio. I am not sure how well the auto sync feature will work with this many clips based on the problems I had last night, I may end up switching bays to another xeon without rocket, but that wasn't giving me Avid issues before on our software only encoding tests...

For someone getting new to the auto sync workflow, any input/tutorials you guys can share is very helpful. The editor also doesn't mind taking our project files and seqs, so that part is no longer problematic (though we still would love to minimize what is needed during the hand off)

I can divide the 219 clips back into the 3 days it was shot on in there own day bins, so that when I bring in audio everything ends up together in the same bin same day it was shot, that would at least cut down on the auto syncing processing since I can do it in 3 batches for the 3 shoot days rather then one giant bin of it all.

At least the encodes seem to be behind me now, and this fast import and sync shouldn't be too hard, I just hope I don't run into any more issues, like the time code doesn't match or something

 

[Brian Merlen]

PS the footage is all 5k HD so not sure why the encodes would scale differently being that its 16 by 9, but hell that was a pre rocket problem anyway lol...


Update:

brought it all into avid, the encodes from redcine worked fine and have correct TC, the audio came in fine with TC, i hit auto sync, boom half my assets sync, half didn't... I am going to look through it now to try and figure out why some sound bites didn't sync. I understand some of the videos are probably just B roll, but why in the hell would half the audio files not sync unless its TC problems or wild sound? I'm gonna do some digging and figure out why, I fear its on set TC mistakes, which is a drag cuz everything was working so damn nice until now!!!

 

[Brian Merlen]

hey, out of curiosity does anyone know the optimal way run plural eyes? i got a relatively old system here but can get started syncing stuff right now potentially, or wait 10 hours and do it on a higher end bay, anyone got any tips as to whats my best bet?

 

[Marc Wielage]

hey, out of curiosity does anyone know the optimal way run plural eyes? i got a relatively old system here but can get started syncing stuff right now potentially, or wait 10 hours and do it on a higher end bay, anyone got any tips as to whats my best bet?

I think the best bet is to hire an experienced assistant editor who knows how to sync dailies. It's not rocket science. If you just have 115 takes, that should literally take only one minute per clip to sync up, assuming all the material is imported and ready to go. We're talking two hours -- at most -- for this much material. Not everything is automatic, and even when the timecode is identical you need to check​ the slates to make sure the clap is dead-on perfect.

 

[Brian Merlen]

I hadn't used version 3, wow insanely better then version 2 (I posted this before I realized how much faster the new version is)! Oh, other then it crashed out, so I am going to try it on a xeon bay tomorrow.

Its a run and gun doc and the audio guy let it roll, like all day long. It actually looks pretty scary to deal with by hand, also everything is still in redcode naming conventions so theres basically no organization yet, nor can we change those names yet So I am just looking to sync it as easily as possible, but this isn't some super high end production with lots of notes or anything of that nature, so I am kind of relying on either time code or plural eyes to set up the preliminary organization of it and then I have to send it on its way