Time Base for Feature??

[Robin Moran]

What is the Time base setting for shooting a feature? Is it 24fps or 23.98fps? I'm in a PAL based country and as much as I would like to shoot 25fps and pulldown to 24fps at the end, I hate knowing my film is slower when I watch it in the cinema (after it's transferred to celluloid). I'm sure someone has asked this question before but can't seem to find it in the threads.

 

[donatello b]

in the US it 24fps for FILM ...
23.98 for TV ( and you can go out to film) ...
i can't see the difference between 24/25 or 23.98 ...
also you might look at what post production services ( or equipment) you have available 24, 25, or 23.98 and then decide the economic's of each ....

 

[Robin Moran]

donatello,

Thanks for the info. FYI, All post here are 25fps based, they are not equipped to answer any of my questions regarding 24/23.98fps. It doesn't mean they cannot support it, just not knowledgeable about it. All our cinemas here also project films at 24fps. Since we are a PAL based region (Asia is 25fps), we usually shoot film at 24fps, and edit 25fps (audio is pulled-up). Then, when we conform/neg-cut, sound is sync-ed at the end. Personally, I don't like this because in my experience, the edit feels like it's lagged when you view the print.

So, my next question is, if I were to shoot 24fps for FILM, will I then be able to create my masters for video release (either Blu-ray or DVD regardless of NTSC/PAL) from a 24fps timebase? Anyone?

 

[Peace Villow]

So, my next question is, if I were to shoot 24fps for FILM, will I then be able to create my masters for video release (either Blu-ray or DVD regardless of NTSC/PAL) from a 24fps timebase? Anyone?

Of course you can do it.
You can master to any HD tape (D5/HDCAM-SR) in 24psf.
From that HD master you can cross convert to another HD format in 50i or 59.94i (using a format converter).
From that you just do a down conversion (directly from the HD deck) to SD PAL or NTSC.

 

[MichaelP]

24fps editing in PAL has been around since... 1992. There is no need to edit at 25fps form 24fps sources. 25fps is only used as the interim transfer medium.

Michael

 

[Robin Moran]

Thanks everyone for the info.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Your post people should be equipped to handle 24fps. I question why they would not be knowledgeable about it. It is the film standard. The only reason to post at 25fps is to accommodate PAL video acquisition. If they deal at all with film, 24fps should be a common thing.

As for 23.98, that is an NTSC thing. The slight offset of speed makes it easier to telecine into NTSC broadcast standards. You will find that in NTSC areas most digitally acquired "24p" is actually 23.976 (23.98). But once again, 24fps is film spec.

If you want 24fps, then shoot 24fps. Done.

 

[Robin Moran]

Fotokem workflow??

Fotokem workflow??

As for 23.98, that is an NTSC thing. The slight offset of speed makes it easier to telecine into NTSC broadcast standards. You will find that in NTSC areas most digitally acquired "24p" is actually 23.976 (23.98). But once again, 24fps is film spec.

If you want 24fps, then shoot 24fps. Done.

Hi all, I know it's been a while since I posted this but I'm finally ready to shoot the film and I came across this Fotokem workflow. In their FAQ, this is what is written:
# Q: What frame rate should I shoot with on the RED One?
# A: We recommend shooting in 23.98 for the greatest flexibility in post. This will allow you to create HD and SD masters and 35 mm film. You can also record in 25p for a PAL delivery.

Am I correct to assume that this is a Fotokem specific advice or has this become industry standard? Otherwise, should I consult with the post facility what they are comfortable with (after all I am in a PAL environment)?

 

[Stuart English]

23.09 or 24.00

23.09 or 24.00

Hi all, I know it's been a while since I posted this but I'm finally ready to shoot the film and I came across this Fotokem workflow. In their FAQ, this is what is written:
# Q: What frame rate should I shoot with on the RED One?
# A: We recommend shooting in 23.98 for the greatest flexibility in post. This will allow you to create HD and SD masters and 35 mm film. You can also record in 25p for a PAL delivery.

Am I correct to assume that this is a Fotokem specific advice or has this become industry standard? Otherwise, should I consult with the post facility what they are comfortable with (after all I am in a PAL environment)?

Talk with your post team. The difference between 23.98 and 24.00 is only 1 in 1,00th, so a transfer to film is transparent.

But if your post tools touch videotape - and audio post often does - 23.98 is usually a good choice.

 

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

En europe the way to go is 25fps, not so much because of telecine videotape easiness but because lights work at 50 cycles making them easier to work at 25fps (yes you can shoot 24fps at 172.8º).
Since you are also not paying for the stock if your are using red one, and you can´t see the difference between 24 and 25fps playback, there are no saving shooting at 24fps.

Audio pitch will be processed when dealing with film copies. That´s daily work for them.

This doesn´t mean you can´t shoot 24fps, of course. I´ve done that in several projects ending in film and video shot on red.