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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Thunderbolt (Light Peak interface) and Scarlet

Wayne Morellini

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Out of the blue (pardon the pun) Intel has renamed it's Light Peak optical interface port, Thunderbolt, and released it on the new Apple Macbook Pro's.

The pros are fast and nicely featured. The interface now goes into a display port type connector with displayport, known for being able to send and receive a post HD video feed. More details are below. But despite the interface looking a bit anemic at the moment, in reference to the possibility of using it for 8K monitoring or uncompressed output to recoding deck, I thought this would be an excellent low cost port to have on the Scarlet, even though it is Apple only for now and maybe even changed in coming years. The combination with displayport may lead it to be the display interface of choice for computers and even consumer electronics. The interpolarity of the port also gives new options in using the camera with other devices. The only other real low cost competitors are USB3 (less datarate) and Sata standards (simpler and nearly as much datarate, but no interpolarity with other devices).

Analysis
The upside of Lightpeak is that it was going to be up to 100Gb/s and low overhead (meaning not so much of that 100GB/s was going to be taken up by the administrative system running it compared to USB) and could run many of the present interfaces (HDMI, Displayport, USB, networking, Sata, PCI express etc over it) on this lightweight protocol (two things I was advocating for the USB3 standard) and very sensibly would include copper power lines alongside the optical fibers. Intel even showed off an optical version of USB3.0 when they announced that.

Instead, they have dropped the optical (to reintroduce it later) and have two bidirectional 10Gb/s "copper" cables combining PCI-express and displayport in a displayport type plug on Apple computers for the next year. They had had cost concerns producing the optical transceivers, and the lack of available bandwidth/PCI-E lines on PC chip-sets. It was then suggested that the interface would drop back to 40Gb/s, a big disappointment, but now two 10Gb/s. They also are planning on including the optical transceivers inside the newer longer reach optical cables this year (does that mean they will also be 10gb/s?). This might appear more expensive, but I guess it is cheaper then making a reliable robust high performance optical cable end that can plug into a port (linking two high performance optical cables can be expensive) and still support higher than 10gb/s interface to optical. With existing technology such cables would be expensive, but I expect Intel will bring out very low cost versions based on their low cost laser on silicon tech, until they find a solution or move to laser off the chipset/processor.

A bit of a mess, but a nice mess anyway.

Thanks
 
As great and welcome of an idea that this is, I don't know the plausibility of it happening(even though it totally should) because from the sound of it, the Scarlet (at least Fixed) body is done being designed in terms of hardware...I know nothing about adding a Thunderbolt port on the back and how long that would take to engineer or if that would put a dent in the schedule, etc etc. I think we've waited long enough for Her, I'd be more than happy to have these guys shipping and have Thunderbolt join the I/O module at a later date.
 
Out of the blue (pardon the pun) Intel has renamed it's Light Peak optical interface port, Thunderbolt, and released it on the new Apple Mac PRO's.

According to Intel, Light Peak was only ever a code name.

The upside of Lightpeak is that it was going to be up to 100Gb/s and low overhead (meaning not so much of that 100GB/s was going to be taken up by the administrative system running it compared to USB) and could run many of the present interfaces (HDMI, Displayport, USB, networking, Sata, PCI express etc over it) on this lightweight protocol (two things I was advocating for the USB3 standard) and very sensibly would include copper power lines alongside the optical fibers.

It was always going to launch at 10Gbps from the start - Intel said 100Gbps within the next decade...

At least, that was the story in 2009 - http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/23/intel-unveils-light-peak-10gbps-optical-interconnect-for-mobile/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10362246-264.html?tag=mncol;txt

Still, even with copper there is very little latency or overhead - like Firewire
 
well, at least it could be added later to the RedStation models.
It should speed up data transfers from SSDs
 
I think you mean the new mac book pro. I cant find any new release of mac pros.
/Joel
 
As great and welcome of an idea that this is, I don't know the plausibility of it happening(even though it totally should) because from the sound of it, the Scarlet (at least Fixed) body is done being designed in terms of hardware...I know nothing about adding a Thunderbolt port on the back and how long that would take to engineer or if that would put a dent in the schedule, etc etc. I think we've waited long enough for Her, I'd be more than happy to have these guys shipping and have Thunderbolt join the I/O module at a later date.

Exactly, it can be integrated into an future I/O module (if they have enough backend interface performance). Otherwise we are talking about the next series, or future models. I don't know if display port will be used on the scarlet, and if it could be reprogrammed to support the new protocol.

I'm disgruntled at the dwindling port speed, but enthusiastic about the type of port and things I was hoping we could do with the old USB2 before it was released. I have done some calculations on an ultimate surround 3D image, and 100Gb/s is doable, but I intend to do calculations on a 3D pixelated style maker bot image just to illustrate how big real world needs might get (and I know that is not how they normally are made, but just is representative of the sort of precision resolution/grain needed for the surfaces).
 
It was always going to launch at 10Gbps from the start - Intel said 100Gbps within the next decade...

Sorry about that Stephen, I must have got it confused, though there has been talk about different initial speeds with optics.


Joel, you are welcome to add the ' into pros as you wish, I think the rest of us know what I am talking about.

Well, looks like the Imac maybe more probably buy for me now. I have been looking at Microsoft Surface, and have made inquiries about the software system to develop some hardware using some display technology I have been meaning to work on, the Apple designs are so old to me.
 
Joel, you are welcome to add the ' into pros as you wish, I think the rest of us know what I am talking about.

Joel is correct, Wayne.

He simply said that you write Mac Pro, but Thunderbolt is for the MacBook Pros.

It is not even possible to upgrade your Mac Pro with an extra PCI-card, cause there won't be any.

Intel has said you will need a new motherboard.
 
Joel is correct, Wayne.

He simply said that you write Mac Pro, but Thunderbolt is for the MacBook Pros.

It is not even possible to upgrade your Mac Pro with an extra PCI-card, cause there won't be any.

Intel has said you will need a new motherboard.

The next rev of the MP's will likely have T-bolt.

Remains to be seen if the current MP revisions could be updated with the revised logic boards/processors.

JohnG
 
Scarlet / Thunderbolt

Scarlet / Thunderbolt

With regard to Scarlet:

No immediate plans for Scarlet to use this connector technology, but the advantage of a modular camera design is when these kind of advances occur you can react to them; no need to toss out your camera and start over ...
 
With regard to Scarlet:

No immediate plans for Scarlet to use this connector technology, but the advantage of a modular camera design is when these kind of advances occur you can react to them; no need to toss out your camera and start over ...

Amen to that!
 
With regard to Scarlet:

No immediate plans for Scarlet to use this connector technology, but the advantage of a modular camera design is when these kind of advances occur you can react to them; no need to toss out your camera and start over ...

That'd be pretty nice. Is it fast enough to record straight to a laptop if an external drive also has thunderbolt? I'm coming from the hvx world but we do this a lot on long interviews so we don't have to swap p2 cards out.
 
Joel is correct, Wayne.

He simply said that you write Mac Pro, but Thunderbolt is for the MacBook Pros.

It is not even possible to upgrade your Mac Pro with an extra PCI-card, cause there won't be any.

Intel has said you will need a new motherboard.

I see, sorry, I come from a time that a Macintosh was a Macintosh portable or not, so I was being a bit generic. As Stephen was not using the plural 's I thought he was referring to that.

Now I have recovered a bit from being sick again, I realize that they are implying two 10mb/s lines instead of the previous 40mb/s (probably 4 lines) but that would be 20mb/s if correct. Display port supports 4 lanes, so I wonder if we could see that.
 
I should also add, it was a shame that they are saying that it is not available through an upgrade card. It is likely that among other things, PCI-E implementations are not streamlined enough (apart from the encoding overhead and requirement for display port protocol). Though it should be possible to get it to work in some fashion on some chipsets at least given enough buffering (assuming that timing is related to the problem). It is a real shame, because implementation on a graphics card is a natural.
 
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